Review and Measurements of SONOS Amp

[BDWoody]

I feel that this review is very.... weird... I personally never heard about the reviewer and don't know who he/she is or what credentials this person have.

Why not spend 5 seconds and learn before saying he must be wrong because you like yours.

A bit about your host....

This is a bit about your host, Amir Majidimehr. I am writing this as to give more context to people reading my technical reviews and measurements. I have realized that without this context, many assume I am yet another blogger spitting out graphs. That is very true but let’s see if we can...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[Xaero]

Why not spend 5 seconds and learn before saying he must be wrong because you like yours.

A bit about your host....

This is a bit about your host, Amir Majidimehr. I am writing this as to give more context to people reading my technical reviews and measurements. I have realized that without this context, many assume I am yet another blogger spitting out graphs. That is very true but let’s see if we can...

audiosciencereview.com

Did... You even read my post ? What in my post was wrong ?

 

[curiouspeter]

I have two Sonos AMPs. HDMI and surround pairing work perfectly. They feel more reliable than my Powernode in everyday use. However, there are two things I do not like:

• TruePlay is not available for generic speakers. One should NEVER do without room correction.
• Roon integration is done through AirPlay or Sonos API. Neither is as good as RAAT (e,g, reliability, UI, etc).

 

[Haskil]

Did... You even read my post ? What in my post was wrong ?

I read your post.
Your introduction is an ad personam attack that seeks to disqualify the tester by attacking him: you don't know him? Big deal ! Rather than attacking it based on your level of knowledge. Find out...

If you had read, you would have understood that Amir was leading the Microsoft teams that helped Sonos in its early days... and therefore he is competent to talk about what he is talking about... Seeking to disqualify him for a history of mains plug standard is pretty silly.
In addition to this, Sonos could perfectly get in touch with ASR to provide its point of view, its own measurements, to provide any information that could possibly contradict the measurements published here.

The mains socket and the cable are not quite up to the IEC7 standard, and this standard - which is sometimes called Philips in Europe - is also quite often poorly respected by cable manufacturers: often too wide to fit into the base, often too short to go well to the bottom. In addition, that of Sonos has a circular termination which comes to marry a small shape dug in the case...

Have you inquired about the purpose of the measurements made by Amir, the founder of this site? Have you read the topics dealing with measurement audibility? Had you done so, you would know that these measurements have only one goal: to check the quality of the design of the devices measured... Here, we can still see that the analog input has poor performance which would have could have been much better if the circuits had been better cared for. It just shows that it is better not to use it if you are looking for excellent performance that is beyond what is audible in terms of defect.
You are happy with yours. Not surprisingly, this device performs well despite faults revealed by the measurement, faults which will be inaudible to many people in their personal conditions of use and their own hearing performance. Being 68 years old, I doubt to hear the slightest hiss coming out of the tweeter of my speakers... nevertheless, I wouldn't buy this Sonos amp even though I have two small sonos speakers which I'm perfectly happy with - the application Sonos too - and Roon...

 

[Xaero]

I read your post.
Your introduction is an ad personam attack that seeks to disqualify the tester by attacking him: you don't know him? Big deal ! Rather than attacking it based on your level of knowledge. Find out...

If you had read, you would have understood that Amir was leading the Microsoft teams that helped Sonos in its early days... and therefore he is competent to talk about what he is talking about... Seeking to disqualify him for a history of mains plug standard is pretty silly.
In addition to this, Sonos could perfectly get in touch with ASR to provide its point of view, its own measurements, to provide any information that could possibly contradict the measurements published here.

The mains socket and the cable are not quite up to the IEC7 standard, and this standard - which is sometimes called Philips in Europe - is also quite often poorly respected by cable manufacturers: often too wide to fit into the base, often too short to go well to the bottom. In addition, that of Sonos has a circular termination which comes to marry a small shape dug in the case...

Have you inquired about the purpose of the measurements made by Amir, the founder of this site? Have you read the topics dealing with measurement audibility? Had you done so, you would know that these measurements have only one goal: to check the quality of the design of the devices measured... Here, we can still see that the analog input has poor performance which would have could have been much better if the circuits had been better cared for. It just shows that it is better not to use it if you are looking for excellent performance that is beyond what is audible in terms of defect.
You are happy with yours. Not surprisingly, this device performs well despite faults revealed by the measurement, faults which will be inaudible to many people in their personal conditions of use and their own hearing performance. Being 68 years old, I doubt to hear the slightest hiss coming out of the tweeter of my speakers... nevertheless, I wouldn't buy this Sonos amp even though I have two small sonos speakers which I'm perfectly happy with - the application Sonos too - and Roon...

Nowhere in my post was there an "personal attack". Also, I pointed our way more things than just the mains cord. Am I not allowed to critique straight up errors in an article? Isn't it a bit weird that someone with such an resume, can't identify an IEC C7 connector, or understand why there's 2 ethernet ports on a "network hub"-style streamer? Or any of the other things that I pointed out for that matter? I too am and old school engineer that has been in the electronics, tech, audio and IT field for 30+ years. I too am qualified to accurately critique the content of the article. I am not "seeking to discredit" anyone. Surely you understand that it is easy to question the accuracy of the advanced measurements, when the other more basic things in the article is confusing to the reviewer?

 

[Haskil]

Nowhere in my post was there an "personal attack". Also, I pointed our way more things than just the mains cord. Am I not allowed to critique straight up errors in an article? Isn't it a bit weird that someone with such an resume, can't identify an IEC C7 connector, or understand why there's 2 ethernet ports on a "network hub"-style streamer? Or any of the other things that I pointed out for that matter? I too am and old school engineer that has been in the electronics, tech, audio and IT field for 30+ years. I too am qualified to accurately critique the content of the article. I am not "seeking to discredit" anyone. Surely you understand that it is easy to question the accuracy of the advanced measurements, when the other more basic things in the article is confusing to the reviewer?

Of course, your beginning response is an attack that tries to disqualify the tester!feel that this review is very.... weird... I personally never heard about the reviewer and don't know who he/she is or what credentials this person have. But the feeling I get is a mixed bag.

you wrote : "The reviewer seem to have capabilities and somewhat basic understanding how to measure speakers and amplifiers, but yet does not recognize what power cord is used for the device in question."

You wrote also : "The power cord, it is not proprietary, it is a stock standard IEC C7 power cable that has been around for decades. Literally anyone who has been into electronics for more than 5 minutes should know this."

It's note true... The power cord is not a stock standard IEC C7 power cables... Its termination is circular and exactly fits a circular recess in the case for aesthetic reasons and this cord is sheathed in fabric and is very flexible... And Amir's criticism was precisely to say that it was very beautiful and undoubtedly expensive... for nothing... because it was made especially for Sonos... like for example the cords for I-Mac although using a plug standard in appearance use one that has a circular cover that fits into the back of this computer for aesthetic reasons and a better fixation... Moreover, in terms of compliance with the standard... try so to change the cord of a mac mini- IEC 7 -, of your electric razor by another, for the standard shot, and you will see that it will often be necessary to take out a very sharp blade to resize the width of the plug and plan the polarizer...

What you take for errors and which serve to disqualify Amirm are not really errors - asking a question about ethernet is not an error -, and allow you to avoid facing reality measurements made by this very competent tester... diverting attention from the main thing: the performance of this device... And also the fact that Sonos preferred not to react when it could...

 

[Xaero]

Of course, your beginning response is an attack that tries to disqualify the tester!feel that this review is very.... weird... I personally never heard about the reviewer and don't know who he/she is or what credentials this person have. But the feeling I get is a mixed bag.

you wrote : "The reviewer seem to have capabilities and somewhat basic understanding how to measure speakers and amplifiers, but yet does not recognize what power cord is used for the device in question."

You wrote also : "The power cord, it is not proprietary, it is a stock standard IEC C7 power cable that has been around for decades. Literally anyone who has been into electronics for more than 5 minutes should know this."

It's note true... The power cord is not a stock standard IEC C7 power cables... Its termination is circular and exactly fits a circular recess in the case for aesthetic reasons and this cord is sheathed in fabric and is very flexible... And Amir's criticism was precisely to say that it was very beautiful and undoubtedly expensive... for nothing... because it was made especially for Sonos... like for example the cords for I-Mac although using a plug standard in appearance use one that has a circular cover that fits into the back of this computer for aesthetic reasons and a better fixation... Moreover, in terms of compliance with the standard... try so to change the cord of a mac mini- IEC 7 -, of your electric razor by another, for the standard shot, and you will see that it will often be necessary to take out a very sharp blade to resize the width of the plug and plan the polarizer...

What you take for errors and which serve to disqualify Amirm are not really errors - asking a question about ethernet is not an error -, and allow you to avoid facing reality measurements made by this very competent tester... diverting attention from the main thing: the performance of this device... And also the fact that Sonos preferred not to react when it could...

I did not mean to make it sound like a personal attack. I can assure you, it was not. Maybe it is a cultural or language barrier, English is my 4th language. If the reviewer feel offended, I am sure he can ask for an apology himself.

As for the power cord that you seem to fixate on, it is indeed a stock standard IEC C7, even though it is recessed, the power socket on the Sonos AMP is indeed standard IEC C8. I have the device Infront of me. They are also not expensive at all, I bough a 5 meter one at my local retailer for 5 Euro, and it fits in the Sonos AMP as expected.

In regards to the iMac example that you brought up, this is not an IEC standard cable, and it is also not meant to even be user replaceable, (which is a discussion for itself) so I am not sure why it is even an example.

In my 30+ years as an engineer, I have NEVER heard of anyone ever needing to "blade" the connector on an IEC standard cable to make it fit. That should NEVER be done. Electric razors does not commonly even use IEC C7, they commonly use IEC C1 or IEC P-C7. They look very similar, but are not. Maybe you got them mixed up?

Pic showing IEC C1 + C2

https://www.sunny-euro.com/data/files/filemanager/182/iec60320-inlets-outlets-connectors-982.jpg

Pic showing IEC C7 + C8 and IEC P-C7 and P-C8

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/C0aLMOodVsg/maxresdefault.jpg

I don't know where you are from, or at what quality standards your country sells cables and devices, but here in Europe where I live, a standard cable is always a standard cable that works. The scenario you are describing just doesn't happen.

 

[Willem]

I don't doubt Amir's expertise and I am very grateful for what he does. However, I do think this was not a very useful review. Measuring the analogue input's performance of a device that is primarily intended as a streamer of digital sources seems less appropriate. I personally think the Sonos Amp is a best buy for someone who wants a practical unit for modern listening to streamed audio and for watching TV. My only gripe is the lack of a digital input for a disc player. As it is now you can only do that through the TV. However, I guess discs are on the way out for many ordinary consumers.
I think it is a very stylish unit, and it is powerful enough to drive the vast majority of speakers, even in a fairly large room. And you can even put it out of sight, for the ultimate in uncluttered domestic elegance. What more is there to wish for, unless you are into pretty high end audio?

 

[Haskil]

Je ne voulais pas que cela ressemble à une attaque personnelle. Je peux vous assurer que non. C'est peut-être une barrière culturelle ou linguistique, l'anglais est ma 4ème langue. Si le critique se sent offensé, je suis sûr qu'il peut lui-même demander des excuses.

Quant au cordon d'alimentation sur lequel vous semblez vous focaliser, il s'agit bien d'une norme IEC C7 d'origine, même s'il est encastré, la prise d'alimentation du Sonos AMP est bien la norme IEC C8. J'ai l'appareil devant moi. Ils ne sont pas non plus chers du tout, j'en ai acheté un de 5 mètres chez mon revendeur local pour 5 euros, et il rentre dans le Sonos AMP comme prévu.

En ce qui concerne l'exemple d'iMac que vous avez évoqué, il ne s'agit pas d'un câble standard CEI, et il n'est même pas censé être remplaçable par l'utilisateur (ce qui est une discussion en soi), donc je ne sais pas pourquoi c'est même un exemple .

Au cours de mes 30 années et plus en tant qu'ingénieur, je n'ai JAMAIS entendu parler de quelqu'un qui ait jamais eu besoin de "lame" le connecteur sur un câble standard IEC pour l'adapter. Cela ne devrait JAMAIS être fait. Les rasoirs électriques n'utilisent même pas couramment IEC C7, ils utilisent couramment IEC C1 ou IEC P-C7. Ils se ressemblent beaucoup, mais ne le sont pas. Peut-être les avez-vous mélangés ?

Photo montrant CEI C1 + C2

https://www.sunny-euro.com/data/files/filemanager/182/iec60320-inlets-outlets-connectors-982.jpg

Pic montrant IEC C7 + C8 et IEC P-C7 et P-C8

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/C0aLMOodVsg/maxresdefault.jpg

Je ne sais pas d'où vous venez, ni à quelles normes de qualité votre pays vend des câbles et des appareils, mais ici en Europe où je vis, un câble standard est toujours un câble standard qui fonctionne. Le scénario que vous décrivez ne se produit tout simplement pas.

I did not mean to make it sound like a personal attack. I can assure you, it was not. Maybe it is a cultural or language barrier, English is my 4th language. If the reviewer feel offended, I am sure he can ask for an apology himself.

As for the power cord that you seem to fixate on, it is indeed a stock standard IEC C7, even though it is recessed, the power socket on the Sonos AMP is indeed standard IEC C8. I have the device Infront of me. They are also not expensive at all, I bough a 5 meter one at my local retailer for 5 Euro, and it fits in the Sonos AMP as expected.

In regards to the iMac example that you brought up, this is not an IEC standard cable, and it is also not meant to even be user replaceable, (which is a discussion for itself) so I am not sure why it is even an example.

In my 30+ years as an engineer, I have NEVER heard of anyone ever needing to "blade" the connector on an IEC standard cable to make it fit. That should NEVER be done. Electric razors does not commonly even use IEC C7, they commonly use IEC C1 or IEC P-C7. They look very similar, but are not. Maybe you got them mixed up?

Pic showing IEC C1 + C2

https://www.sunny-euro.com/data/files/filemanager/182/iec60320-inlets-outlets-connectors-982.jpg

Pic showing IEC C7 + C8 and IEC P-C7 and P-C8

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/C0aLMOodVsg/maxresdefault.jpg

I don't know where you are from, or at what quality standards your country sells cables and devices, but here in Europe where I live, a standard cable is always a standard cable that works. The scenario you are describing just doesn't happen.

I live in France.

When we start a review the way you started it, obviously we are trying to disqualify the tester... And when we continue as you do, it becomes clearer... In short, you were wrong: Amir knows perfectly how to measure electronics and loudspeakers and his are rarely disputed...
Besides, I'm not focusing on anything: I'm just answering you. Because the means you used to disqualify Amir are a very ordinary way of bad rhetoric : you connected to ASR just for that... it seems ?

One thing: the Imac mains cord is obviously interchangeable by the user: it is an ordinary cable fitted with a plug similar to that found on high fidelity equipment... IEC C13, but like that of the Sonos it has an additional cover coming to be embedded in a knockout made in the back of the Imac...

As for the no name cables IEC C7 that can be used on a Macmini or with this sonos ... they are often not exactly the desired size... so we cut a little... for enter : especially for the Mini or for ATV or Airport express...

But Amir insisted on the luxury of the Sonos cable: clearly it is not a stock cable, but a specific model... Amir was not mistaken... he who has already tested devices equipped with the same plug...

For Sonos : 24,95 euros

Câble d'alimentation I | Sonos

Remplacez le câble de votre Sonos Arc, Beam, Ray, Five, Play:5 (Gen 2), Sub (Gen 3), Sub Mini, Amp, Playbase avec le câble d'alimentation I pour continuer d'écouter.

www.sonos.com

For Imac : 12,48 euros

Apple Mac Câble pour Apple iMac A1224 A1225 A1311 A1312 A1418 A1419

Apple Mac Câble pour Apple iMac A1224 A1225 A1311 A1312 A1418 A1419 partir de adaptateurs-pc.com. Nous vendons Apple Mac Câble pour Apple iMac A1224 A1225 A1311 A1312 A1418 A1419 avec 1 an de garantie.

www.adaptateurs-pc.com

Bref, comme on dit en France, vous avez pris le mauvais chemin pour contester le travail d'Amir...

 

[Xaero]

I live in France.

When we start a review the way you started it, obviously we are trying to disqualify the tester... And when we continue as you do, it becomes clearer... In short, you were wrong: Amir knows perfectly how to measure electronics and loudspeakers and his are rarely disputed...
Besides, I'm not focusing on anything: I'm just answering you. Because the means you used to disqualify Amir are a very ordinary way of bad rhetoric : you connected to ASR just for that... it seems ?

One thing: the Imac mains cord is obviously interchangeable by the user: it is an ordinary cable fitted with a plug similar to that found on high fidelity equipment... IEC C13, but like that of the Sonos it has an additional cover coming to be embedded in a knockout made in the back of the Imac...

As for the no name cables IEC C7 that can be used on a Macmini or with this sonos ... they are often not exactly the desired size... so we cut a little... for enter : especially for the Mini or for ATV or Airport express...

But Amir insisted on the luxury of the Sonos cable: clearly it is not a stock cable, but a specific model... Amir was not mistaken... he who has already tested devices equipped with the same plug...

For Sonos : 24,95 euros

Câble d'alimentation I | Sonos

Remplacez le câble de votre Sonos Arc, Beam, Ray, Five, Play:5 (Gen 2), Sub (Gen 3), Sub Mini, Amp, Playbase avec le câble d'alimentation I pour continuer d'écouter.

www.sonos.com

For Imac : 12,48 euros

Apple Mac Câble pour Apple iMac A1224 A1225 A1311 A1312 A1418 A1419

Apple Mac Câble pour Apple iMac A1224 A1225 A1311 A1312 A1418 A1419 partir de adaptateurs-pc.com. Nous vendons Apple Mac Câble pour Apple iMac A1224 A1225 A1311 A1312 A1418 A1419 avec 1 an de garantie.

www.adaptateurs-pc.com

Bref, comme on dit en France, vous avez pris le mauvais chemin pour contester le travail d'Amir...

You don't seem to be interested in learning by facts, but rather more interested in arguing for the sake of argue. Hence, we will end this discussion here and now. Have a nice day, sir.

 

[dshreter]

I don't doubt Amir's expertise and I am very grateful for what he does. However, I do think this was not a very useful review. Measuring the analogue input's performance of a device that is primarily intended as a streamer of digital sources seems less appropriate. I personally think the Sonos Amp is a best buy for someone who wants a practical unit for modern listening to streamed audio and for watching TV. My only gripe is the lack of a digital input for a disc player. As it is now you can only do that through the TV. However, I guess discs are on the way out for many ordinary consumers.
I think it is a very stylish unit, and it is powerful enough to drive the vast majority of speakers, even in a fairly large room. And you can even put it out of sight, for the ultimate in uncluttered domestic elegance. What more is there to wish for, unless you are into pretty high end audio?

If you were buying this to plug in a turntable as Sonos shows in their own marketing as the lead scenario, it might not be an ideal choice. In fact it's probably a poor choice if you're not even using it with a television which is where this amp really shines in its simplicity. I have two myself and am very happy with them.

But Amir's review includes the data on both analogue and digital inputs so you could decide for yourself if the product is fit for your own needs. That would seem to be the hallmark of an excellent review.

 

[Willem]

I just found it an ill directed and unnecessarily grumpy review. I write and read quite a few scientific referee reports and I edit a major series in my field and I would not have let this pass. Anyway, enough said.

 

[dshreter]

I just found it an ill directed and unnecessarily grumpy review. I write and read quite a few scientific referee reports and I edit a major series in my field and I would not have let this pass. Anyway, enough said.

I also agree with this too... tackling power cords and voice control does seem a bit like nitpicking that misses the gestalt of an excellent product.

 

[Haskil]

Vous ne semblez pas intéressé par l'apprentissage par les faits, mais plutôt par l'argumentation pour le plaisir d'argumenter. Par conséquent, nous mettrons fin à cette discussion ici et maintenant. Bonne journée, monsieur.

As we say in France: it is the hospital that makes fun of charity... But I am happy with these exchanges which have shown the inanity of your approach. At least you know who Amir is now... Have a nice day

 

[Xaero]

As we say in France: it is the hospital that makes fun of charity... But I am happy with these exchanges which have shown the inanity of your approach. At least you know who Amir is now... Have a nice day

Ah, but you showed nothing, literally, other than that you are not up-to-date with IEC standards. Bye now.

 

[Marijnvp]

I ordered a NAD D3045. But adding streaming capabilities to this device will set me back another ~€150+. So now I'm in doubt if I should not buy another Sonos Amp instead.
But howcome the Sonos amp gets such a bad review, while the digital amplifier part scores on par or even better than the NAD D3045? I mean, this is a digital streaming amplifier. Most people will stream music or use the HDMI-arc, while the focus on this review is on the line-in. The line-in has a minimum delay of 75ms because it has to buffer it for multi-room usage. So it's more of a gimmick anyway and not useable for live playback. One could also argue that the overengineering, overall design and formfactor are a huge plus. Though, I agree that I'd rather get standard parts instead of custom if that means more budget for better audio.

The software related issues mentioned are not really debatable, that's personal preference I guess. But let's be honest, Sonos has a reputation of having one of the best (if not the best) user experiences in the business. Maybe Bluesound is on par, and maybe if you use Roon that could be a point of criticism for not being Roon-ready. But what else is there?

I guess I was really just hoping for a better result because I have my eyes on this unit. If I only stream and use HDMI, this unit is not that bad? NAD D3045 retails for €650 on sale currently, which is exactly the same for the Sonos Amp here in NL.

 

[Willem]

The focus on the line-in makes the review irrelevant for the intended main use of the unit. An additional digital input would have been nice, however, to connect a cd player.

 

[Marijnvp]

The focus on the line-in makes the review irrelevant for the intended main use of the unit. An additional digital input would have been nice, however, to connect a cd player.

Inputs on these kind of units are rare. Same goes for the BlueSound powernode which has the bare minimum. I also hate that only the sonos Five has line-in. There seems to be not a single multi-room system that gives you some flexibility unless you put a lot of money on the table or vouch for old school big av units.

At least Sonos has a vast selection of streaming services and there’s an option to use a raspberry pi to DYI a line-in device.

 

[Luminair]

So it seems that the front-end noise is an issue for Line In.

I would like help choosing a preamp to buff signals before getting to the Sonos Amp's noisy line input. But I'm not sure about the about the exact specs of the Sonos Amp or the electrical engineering of it all. Does anyone know if I should I be looking at speaker amps like the Fosi Audio V3, or headphone amps (that are tested at totally different impedance) like the Topping L30 II?

 

[dshreter]

I would like help choosing a preamp to buff signals before getting to the Sonos Amp's noisy line input. But I'm not sure about the about the exact specs of the Sonos Amp or the electrical engineering of it all. Does anyone know if I should I be looking at speaker amps like the Fosi Audio V3, or headphone amps (that are tested at totally different impedance) like the Topping L30 II?

Can you somehow feed a digital input instead? That’s where this unit shines.