Review and Measurements of Schiit Yggdrasil V2 DAC

[Frank Dernie]

Yes, I was thinking of the entire ADC/DAC chain.

Indeed.
I don't think many listeners would hear the difference when an ADC/DAC is inserted in the listening chain.
I can't and Ivor Tiefenbrun of Linn could not either.
Edit, found the link
http://www.bostonaudiosociety.org/bas_speaker/abx_testing2.htm
It is easy to hear the degradation of a tape recorder in the loop on music IME.

 

[Jinjuku]

I have to say the difference between the two is not night and day. And I will listen for both high quality jazz and classical recordings + not so good recordings for more mainstream pop/rock. I still have plenty of time testing; so still not decided.

Here is an experiment:

Install Foobar 2000 with the Effect DSP plug in. Use the Distortion tool and dial in some distortion on the Matrix until it sounds like the Yggy or even better.

Because that is most likely what you are hearing is a dirty output with some harmonics that you find pleasing. You're better off getting a high fidelity device and fuck it up on purpose than the other way around.

 

[Theriverlethe]

Here is an experiment:

Install Foobar 2000 with the Effect DSP plug in. Use the Distortion tool and dial in some distortion on the Matrix until it sounds like the Yggy or even better.

Because that is most likely what you are hearing is a dirty output with some harmonics that you find pleasing. Your better off getting a high fidelity device and fuck it up on purpose than the other way around.

A better experiment might be to dial in Yggy’s distortion level and use the ABX comparator. It’s much more likely pure expectation bias or flawed level matching.

 

[amirm]

Because that is most likely what you are hearing is a dirty output with some harmonics that you find pleasing. Your better off getting a high fidelity device and fuck it up on purpose than the other way around.

The owner of the last Yggdrasil gave me a playlist of tracks that made it sound better than Topping DX7 Pro. I matched levels and played the two side by side with the same tracks. No audible difference at all. It is hard not to be biased by much larger DAC (Yggdrasil) and stories behind it, thinking it sounds better.

FYI with test tones at very low levels then there was audible difference but I am talking -90 dB. There, I could hear the graininess of the Yggdrasil due to non-linearities in it. However due to high amplification there was so much noise that subjectively the DX7 Pro sounded a bit worse because the noise was more wideband (I had to heavily amplify the output to hear the low level signals).

Bottom line, folks are imagining differences. No way they are hearing any improvement here.

 

[TGB]

A better experiment might be to dial in Yggy’s distortion level and use the ABX comparator. It’s much more likely pure expectation bias or flawed level matching.

Expectations? What are you talking about? I started the testing with the expectation that the element X would "roll over the" Yggdrasil with ease. Besides there is a financial gain by replacing Yggy with element X. I would say the expectation bias should make this easy the other way around.

This is what is confusing, what I heard on multiple tracks is very much the opposite of what I expected.

This AB testing is not as easy as you think. It is different devices; I have to move over the headphone connection from one to another. Besides using the Moon 430HAD headphone amp is not that easy either. I can not have both devices connected to balanced input (only one balanced input exist on the headphone amplifier).

Current findings:
The element X got a much weaker (in strength) amplifier compared to the Moon 430HAD (this was expected), but the element X got enough strength to handled both Audeze LCD-XC (with no additonal gain), for the LCD-4 (200 ohm edition) you need to apply the +10dB gain. The element X got a slightly more neutral sound (no signature), the Moon 430HAD got a tad warmer signature (this is by design). No dramatic difference between the signature of the two headphone amplifiers.

Comparing the DAC module of the 430HAD against element X. This is night and day difference - element X is better on all areas (even when comparing the element X connected via balanced connectors to the Moon 430HAD).

When it comes to the element X DAC itself compared to Yggdrasil v2. I find the element X better when playing good quality recordings with high dynamic range. I tend to like the Yggdrasil v2 better for everything else. But the difference is not as dramatic as one would think.

Currently I'm leaning against doing the replacement and go for the Matrix element X (both to simplify the setup and for financial reasons).

When it comes to Roon. My existing system is working flawless here with no issues at all. I'm glad to see that with latest firmware the Matrix element X behaves perfect. Only thing I have noticed is with MQA, it takes a second for the element X to recognize MQA (downloading filter?). So for first track of a MQA album, there is a small glitch in sound when it switches to MQA during the first second of playback. Seems to only happen during first track of the album.

 

[Veri]

You're not addressing the volume matching at all. Oh, "night and day" differences, never heard that one before...
It's nice and all that you are doing this for yourself or to make up your own mind, but this don't hold much value on a science based forum.

 

[TGB]

You're not addressing the volume matching at all. Oh, "night and day" differences, never heard that one before...
It's nice and all that you are doing this for yourself or to make up your own mind, but this don't hold much value on a science based forum.

Of course I match volume when comparing. This is given, and when comparing to the build in DAC of the Moon 430HAD this is very easy, ended with +6dB for the built in DAC module compared to element X.

Edit:
I need to listen with my own ears to hear what I prefer. The only way to do it. I'm not making the decision based on specs like it sound like you would do.

 

[amirm]

Expectations? What are you talking about? I started the testing with the expectation that the element X would "roll over the" Yggdrasil with ease. Besides there is a financial gain by replacing Yggy with element X. I would say the expectation bias should make this easy the other way around.

This is what is confusing, what I heard on multiple tracks is very much the opposite of what I expected.

It doesn't matter what you expected. When you try to evaluate gear and compare, you listen differently than when enjoying music. When you do, you often hear more detail, more air, more "analog sound," etc. when all of that was always there before. Once there, then bias sets it against the other alternative.

You have to do the testing blind in these cases so that you don't know if the device has or has not changed in the second listening. Have a loved one test you that way. Switch or not switch the DAC 10 times and see how often you get it right.

Level differences also create such effects and hugely so. So you need to match that.

 

[Jimster480]

Buy a switch and play both outputs at the same time then you can decide.

 

[peanuts]

neither of the units are worth the money, as you say yourself there is little difference, and $99 dacs destroy the Yggdrasil. good headset amps like the jds atom are also only $99

 

[TGB]

JDS Atom does not work well with Audeze LCD4. Not enough power.

 

[maverickronin]

JDS Atom does not work well with Audeze LCD4. Not enough power.

You must listen pretty damn loud

Guestimating the Atom's output into the LCD-4's 200 ohms suggests 115dB+

 

[Veri]

You must listen pretty damn loud

Guestimating the Atom's output into the LCD-4's 200 ohms suggests 115dB+

Kinda depends on the DAC output level but yeah with standard 2.0V it should be ok except with low level classical tracks..

 

[TGB]

I ended up ordering the Matrix Audio Element X. Not because of the magical differences, but because of good match for my Audeze headphones (I have multiple), for the financials reasons and to simplify my headphone rig at home.

 

[Veri]

Great choice!

 

[TGB]

You must listen pretty damn loud

Guestimating the Atom's output into the LCD-4's 200 ohms suggests 115dB+

The Matrix Element X pushes way more, and it just barely handles the LCD4. At classical music with low level I'm getting extremely close to 0dB volume with +10dB gain enabled (headphones connected on fully balanced cables (and output) of course).

And this is the main reason I want to test equipment out at home before buying

 

[Theriverlethe]

The Matrix Element X pushes way more, and it just barely handles the LCD4. At classical music with low level I'm getting extremely close to 0dB volume with +10dB gain enabled (headphones connected on fully balanced cables (and output) of course).

And this is the main reason I want to test equipment out at home before buying

Matrix and Atom headphone output power looks pretty equal.

 

[TGB]

Matrix and Atom headphone output power looks pretty equal.

And why would I want the Atom? I already have the Moon 430HAD which beats them all
Benefit of Matrix Element X is everything in one box - no extra external connections or cables between components. Main usage will be Roon; and some skype calls/Spotify via USB/I2S.

 

[Theriverlethe]

And why would I want the Atom? I already have the Moon 430HAD which beats them all
Benefit of Matrix Element X is everything in one box - no extra external connections or cables between components. Main usage will be Roon; and some skype calls/Spotify via USB/I2S.

Just trying to get the math right...

 

[Sal1950]

I'm still running my old reliable Emotiva DC-1 DAC/HP Amp that Amir measured about 2 1/2 years ago. Continues to sound great driving my Senn HD 650's