Review and Measurements of Schiit Yggdrasil V2 DAC

[majingotan]

Gosh, I couldn't imagine a like that at work. You must be the honcho. Is Velveeta replacing their Velvet sound? I wonder if they messed up with the translation

Nope. Just a slave wageworker. But work isn't so strict that we can't have personal audio stuff there. Velveeta is just my pun for Velvet sound to describe that cheesy sweet sound that makes me smile and tap my fingers and bang my head BTW. I sense that you're a fan of subjectivism (since you also like to describe the AK4499 velvet sound with the D90 DAC)

 

[gvl]

Intense. A blind level matched test would have taken much less time than this back and forth and got things actually sorted out.

 

[BAMCIS]

??? You are in Schiit Yggdrasil DAC thread. If you look earlier you see that I compared it to Topping DX7 Pro. The person who loaned it me said the DX7 Pro didn't sound as good. I told him to give me the specific tracks. I then tested the two level matched and at normal volume, in blind controlled testing, they sounded the same.

I was in the middle of testing at much lower levels and then amplifying the difference. There was some but before I could finish it, the owner asked for his Schiit DAC back and that was that.

I have no idea what you mean by what I did with the looser. I have just about every DAC that I own still here. I probably have 30 to 40 by now if not more. They are not in use however. What is in use is the RME ADI-2 DAC on my desktop and Matrix MQA Sabre on my main system.

Your being unsure on the M500 was my spark to get it. I figured if you ere not sure which one you'd use as your ref DAC it must be a keeper at the price. This was gown in the comments when someone asked you after the M500 review. I don't have the quote but I looked at it for a week before pulling the trigger. I really like the M500, my inbound SU 9 will probably sound the same but it's worth it for the regular power cable inlet, bluetooth and better overall design.

Nope. Just a slave wageworker. But work isn't so strict that we can't have personal audio stuff there. Velveeta is just my pun for Velvet sound to describe that cheesy sweet sound that makes me smile and tap my fingers and bang my head BTW. I sense that you're a fan of subjectivism (since you also like to describe the AK4499 velvet sound with the D90 DAC)

Nope. Just a slave wageworker. But work isn't so strict that we can't have personal audio stuff there. Velveeta is just my pun for Velvet sound to describe that cheesy sweet sound that makes me smile and tap my fingers and bang my head BTW. I sense that you're a fan of subjectivism (since you also like to describe the AK4499 velvet sound with the D90 DAC)

I wouldn't say I like describing the 4499 sound. Lots of people asked what happened since they thought I had I had hyped it up. I could tell the sound on metal and EDM just wasn't right, by right I mean what I was used to. I kept telling myself this will fade, it'll change, it's just new, I'll get used to it but it never changed and I neither did I.

I try to be open minded, telling someone they don't like something is the same as telling they do like something. I don't buy gear like women buy shoes, most of my stuff is 5 over years old but for my new DACs and a couple of other items this year.

I have a pair of JBL LSR6332 monitors and on them the D90 sounded closer (than on my big speakers) to the DX7 PRO and SMSL M500 but nothing like the (original) W4S DAC2. The DAC2 doesn't sound like any of the others, better than the first 2 Benchmark DACs and better than the PS Audio Digital Link iii. The ESS 9038PRo DACs and the D90 caused the sale of all the others. I could not listen to them at all after a spending time with the new stuff.

 

[amirm]

I'm sure that RME is tip top but I hear it's like figuring out Vulcan chess and dazzling light displays keep us from the inner sanctum where we truly hear what's going on.

Yeh, I just use it as is without attempting to get into the menus.

 

[BAMCIS]

Intense. A blind level matched test would have taken much less time than this back and forth and got things actually sorted out.

No, my D90 is long gone. Plus, I wouldn't have the audacity to tell someone they really need a special test when the sound issue was not subtle or nuanced, (I could have lived with that and kind of expected that) but major and they had been working nonstop on be sure it was indeed the new item in the chain that made the change.

"You, know, you may really not be hearing this massive difference even tho you just spent 3 weeks switching amps and speakers from room to room and plowed thru every reference CD you have 10 times to mitigate what you are hearing to no avail. So dot this test to confirm what you already know. I'm getting rid of the DAC, what would that achieve? Well, maybe you can pretend it no longer sounds that way in the same system... even tho now you are even more certain it is.' Either way the result would be the same- adios D90.

That makes no sense. If I was unsure of something, like a quick listen and I needed confirmation, maybe. I was already well past that point. Any ideas to make it sound not soft? Yup, get a different DAC. Did it, now it's good. It was that simple

 

[BAMCIS]

Yeh, I just use it as is without attempting to get into the menus.

Wow, I didn't see that anywhere. That should have been the headline in the other reviews I read. Now I have to shift gears

 

[BAMCIS]

I can tell tell you what I do before completing a controlled listening test or taking measurements: treat my opinions with a bit of caution and humility.

Apologies, while I was dodging monkey excrement from several directions I may have doled out some hasty analogies and unsolicited advice. Hope nothing offended you

 

[Veri]

Sorry Amir, there are so many insecure reflexively irate D90 apologists throwing handfuls of excrement at me from their cages I can't keep things straight.

Sounds to me like you're just blaming others

Apologies, while I was dodging monkey excrement from several directions

Ahh yes very eloquently put frankly if all you can do is see things from your own, stubborn and rather limited point of view this conversation is really just going to go in circles.

 

[BDWoody]

Sounds to me like you're just blaming others


Ahh yes very eloquently put frankly if all you can do is see things from your own, stubborn and and limited point of view this conversation is really just going to go in circles.

Almost like it's turned into trolling...

 

[Jimbob54]

Almost like it's turned into trolling...

My view too.

 

[Jimbob54]

You didn't just play the "my speakers don't need to produce full-scale, bottom octave bass for me to speak with authority on the matter" card, did you? If you did you are hilarious, couldn't resist turning that airtight logic back on you.

Some of you guys are 100% certain you know what others hear and don't hear, triggered and reflexively irate because you probably own the item in question? Men don't think that way. Any information I provide is promptly dismissed and redirected into a veiled personal attack instead of pausing even for a split second to consider what I said.

Are you being defensive because you do not own full range speakers? It's OK man, most of us don't. I couldn't affor any until I was in my late 20s. Perhaps you are making do with a headphone amp in small apartment, dreaming of the real thing? Mom's basement maybe? It's OK man, the rona hit some folks hard so I understand.

You are also playing the 'make accusations then demand huge wonky request for detailed evidence and when it's not provided, (hold your breath) I must have surely been FOS' card right?

Let me make sure I have you position correct: You are asking me to provide detailed evidence proving a claim a claim that you are making isn't true. That's called disproving a negative. It doesn't work that way. If that's your position you have no substance or dare I say it, hi-fi chops. If you want to provide this evidence, go ahead. Let me know when you have it all worked out. The very idea you'd deny what I heard and ask for evidence says you'd just deny any findings that run counter to your precious yet misplaced belief that a DAC cannot possibly sound different than another. I have no question about it, you do. Now get crackin' and make sure you find a revealing system with full range speakers to do this testing on. Be a shame to come away with skewed data. Take it easy dude, everything's going to be OK.

Good luck with the big project

I didn't mention my speakers, my DAC or anything to do with me.

"Let me make sure I have you position correct: You are asking me to provide detailed evidence proving a claim a claim that you are making isn't true."

I am making no claims. You are. I'm saying the way you reached your conclusion is flawed.

"The very idea you'd deny what I heard and ask for evidence says you'd just deny any findings that run counter to your precious yet misplaced belief"

I'm denying nothing. I'm saying how you reached your conclusion is flawed and therefore not evidence of anything.

Also what is hifi chops? I was under the impression chops referred to intense skills in a discipline. Last time I looked, buying boxes, plugging them together and pressing buttons didn't really count as either a discipline or something that allowed for any real demonstration of "chops".

HiFi chops, wonderful.

 

[Thomas savage]

Apologies, while I was dodging monkey excrement from several directions I may have doled out some hasty analogies and unsolicited advice. Hope nothing offended you

This is not the forum for you , nothing you have asserted has any weight to the members here , the reason for this has been explained so many times before it's not worth repeating.

Clearly you are amusing yourself here at my members expense and all the while the resulting content is thoroughly worthless ( beyond amusing you ) .

So in the absence of any real and beneficial signs of communication taking place here I'm going to thread ban you .

You can expect a forum wide ban to follow if such discussion dynamics develope in others threads. .

Cheers

 

[Jimbob54]

This is not the forum for you , nothing you have asserted has any weight to the members here , the reason for this has been explained so many times before it's not worth repeating.

Clearly you are amusing yourself here at my members expense and all the while the resulting content is thoroughly worthless ( beyond amusing you ) .

So in the absence of any real and beneficial signs of communication taking place here I'm going to thread ban you .

You can expect a forum wide ban to follow if such discussion dynamics develope in others threads. .

Cheers

Mad Hi-fi chops though!

 

[andreasmaaan]

Apologies, while I was dodging monkey excrement from several directions I may have doled out some hasty analogies and unsolicited advice. Hope nothing offended you

That's a fair reply

I remain surprised/amused at your robust lack of self-doubt.

 

[DSJR]

All you need to do is compare A and B, forgetting which is which and as level controlled as possible (I couldn't even do that properly). I got thoroughly fooled even this amateurish way and caused something of an epiphany...

Just think, looks as if you can get roughly similar performance here for ten dollars (pounds) or less OK, I apologise for being a bit cruel...

 

[Alec Kinnear]

Was this after or before the required 200 hours of burn-in? What power cables did you use? Did you try the RME with proper pure silver OCC (not silver plated) XLR Cables? That would change a lot of things. Did your wife (or some musician friend) confirmed that impression as well?

The worst part, @VintageFlanker is the poster (@hudo) is right about the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. I have one here and it offers a much smaller soundstage than a Topping E30 and an NAD C165BEE. So all your measurements really don't help in this case. The limited set of measurements made at AudioScienceReview don't even begin to characterise musical sound. The only thing the set of measurements made here can help with is identifying poor gear. Identifying poor/flawed gear is no small achievement, but it's only a start.

In the case of the RME ADI-2 DAC FS it does have other attributes which help make up for the tight soundstage. On the sound state the RME ADI-2 DAC FS offers almost zero hiss and an excellent parametric equaliser. On the feature side, good headphone amplifier with separate EQ, tone and volume controls;

Based on your obsession with measurements and persistently rude posts, you are slowly convincing me that neither music nor the musical interest you. Since you like schooling people, allow me to return the favour. As Stereophile understood, measurements are a good starting point to reveal hidden flaws and recognise exceptional performance. What matters though is how audio equipment reproduces music, which is why the measurements follow one or two listening tests. Measurements are just a starting point.

In the particular case of this Schiit DAC, more than the flawed measurements what disturbs me is the poor grounding and inadequate safety features, particularly at the price point. On the other hand, when touching the case of the Topping D50s, A50s and P50 all give off 5v and 12v shocks (at that level it isn't a hard shock but an uncomfortable feeling like crawling on one's skin) as they are poorly grounded. The properly engineered for safety RME ADI-2 DAC FS does not do so. A device which doesn't send electricity through my body every time I touch it matters to me.

You'll have to create some new tests if you wish to characterise musical sound with measurements only. A good starting point would be a test which differentiates between a wide and open soundstage and a more intimate closed one. When I've tried to measure such differences with a UMIK-1 coming out of speakers, it's impossible to differentiate most DACs, even when the differences are easily audible. Here's a comparison of the Topping E30, Topping D50s and Musical Fidelity V90.

Yet the sonic differences are clear when listening to them (vocals are recessed in D50s, treble is a little brighter in E30, widest soundstage, vocals are smoothest with least grain on V90).

Amir measures for stereo separation but that doesn't seem to have a direct co-relation to the feeling of spaciousness or soundstage. Another hitch is that Amir uses Audirvana as his player – Audirvana output is not bit perfect. Any measurement of stereo separation that Amir passes through Audirvana is worthless in any case, as Audirvana sounds better precisely because of a stereo separation filter (there's also a very slight boost in treble around 8 kHz which adds presence).

In Amir's own words, the whole point is the music:

My relationship is with the music. When I hear about some new music, I can instantly stream and listen to it at high fidelity. That is what the hobby is about: enjoying music.

In any case, a little courtesy and mutual respect would go a long way to making AudioScienceReview a more agreeable place where both music and measurements productively co-exist.

 

[Veri]

Yet the sonic differences are clear when listening to them (vocals are recessed in D50s, treble is a little brighter in E30, widest soundstage, vocals are smoothest with least grain on V90).

So let me get this straight, even after attempting to find some kind of explanation for what you seem to hear (good on you) and failing to do so, you still think there are changes "beyond" measuring, not seen in the FR? Also any proof to your Audirvana claims?

 

[BDWoody]

Yet the sonic differences are clear when listening to them (vocals are recessed in D50s, treble is a little brighter in E30, widest soundstage, vocals are smoothest with least grain on V90).

What controls did you use?

If none...don't be upset by the predictable responses.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Reading your post was a complete waste of time.

Based on your obsession with measurements and persistently rude posts, you are slowly convincing me that neither music nor the musical interest you. Since you like schooling people, allow me to return the favour

No, you don't have a clue about how much interest I put into music.
Sure, allow me to return some favour as well... Hum... where is it alrealdy? Oh yes, just found it!

Bye.

 

[Rottmannash]

The worst part, @VintageFlanker is the poster (@hudo) is right about the RME ADI-2 DAC FS. I have one here and it offers a much smaller soundstage than a Topping E30 and an NAD C165BEE. So all your measurements really don't help in this case. The limited set of measurements made at AudioScienceReview don't even begin to characterise musical sound. The only thing the set of measurements made here can help with is identifying poor gear. Identifying poor/flawed gear is no small achievement, but it's only a start.

In the case of the RME ADI-2 DAC FS it does have other attributes which help make up for the tight soundstage. On the sound state the RME ADI-2 DAC FS offers almost zero hiss and an excellent parametric equaliser. On the feature side, good headphone amplifier with separate EQ, tone and volume controls;

Based on your obsession with measurements and persistently rude posts, you are slowly convincing me that neither music nor the musical interest you. Since you like schooling people, allow me to return the favour. As Stereophile understood, measurements are a good starting point to reveal hidden flaws and recognise exceptional performance. What matters though is how audio equipment reproduces music, which is why the measurements follow one or two listening tests. Measurements are just a starting point.

In the particular case of this Schiit DAC, more than the flawed measurements what disturbs me is the poor grounding and inadequate safety features, particularly at the price point. On the other hand, when touching the case of the Topping D50s, A50s and P50 all give off 5v and 12v shocks (at that level it isn't a hard shock but an uncomfortable feeling like crawling on one's skin) as they are poorly grounded. The properly engineered for safety RME ADI-2 DAC FS does not do so. A device which doesn't send electricity through my body every time I touch it matters to me.

You'll have to create some new tests if you wish to characterise musical sound with measurements only. A good starting point would be a test which differentiates between a wide and open soundstage and a more intimate closed one. When I've tried to measure such differences with a UMIK-1 coming out of speakers, it's impossible to differentiate most DACs, even when the differences are easily audible. Here's a comparison of the Topping E30, Topping D50s and Musical Fidelity V90.

View attachment 121964

Yet the sonic differences are clear when listening to them (vocals are recessed in D50s, treble is a little brighter in E30, widest soundstage, vocals are smoothest with least grain on V90).

Amir measures for stereo separation but that doesn't seem to have a direct co-relation to the feeling of spaciousness or soundstage. Another hitch is that Amir uses Audirvana as his player – Audirvana output is not bit perfect. Any measurement of stereo separation that Amir passes through Audirvana is worthless in any case, as Audirvana sounds better precisely because of a stereo separation filter (there's also a very slight boost in treble around 8 kHz which adds presence).

In Amir's own words, the whole point is the music:



In any case, a little courtesy and mutual respect would go a long way to making AudioScienceReview a more agreeable place where both music and measurements productively co-exist.

How do you know Audirvana isn't bit perfect?