• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

Review and Measurements of Schiit Yggdrasil V2 DAC

Frank Dernie

Major Contributor
Patreon Donor
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
2,112
Likes
3,205
Location
Oxfordshire
Ok then. I don't know what else to say. Finally a listening test that is blind and level matched with a multiple people involved and nobody is buying it.
I bought it. I know lots of people who prefer a bit of added distortion in their listening. They all prefer listening to LPs, much more off the wall DACs than this Schitt model and often use SET amplifiers.
I have no problem with people preferring this, it has been happening for years and is no surprise to me.
OTOH I do take issue with the claim that measurements don't show it - they do. I think quite a few people I know are unwilling to accept that they prefer a bit of added euphonic distortion so tell themselves there is something we can't measure leading to their preference, I don't buy that AT ALL.
 

Mad_Economist

Active Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2017
Messages
103
Likes
147
I bought it. I know lots of people who prefer a bit of added distortion in their listening. They all prefer listening to LPs, much more off the wall DACs than this Schitt model and often use SET amplifiers.
I have no problem with people preferring this, it has been happening for years and is no surprise to me.
OTOH I do take issue with the claim that measurements don't show it - they do. I think quite a few people I know are unwilling to accept that they prefer a bit of added euphonic distortion so tell themselves there is something we can't measure leading to their preference, I don't buy that AT ALL.
Bear in mind that, while certainly above a well-performing - or even typical - delta-sigma design, the Yggdrasil's harmonic distortion is very low in terms of our playback systems. The highest harmonic is below -80dB relative to fundamental, and it's H2, which will be most significantly masked of them all. I would be shocked to hear someone consistently picking out a source with a sub-.01% second harmonic as different from a source with a sub-.0001% second harmonic in a listening test, even with pure tones, much less music.
 

solderdude

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 21, 2018
Messages
3,416
Likes
6,078
Location
The Neverlands
It's quite possible there are lots of folks around preferring the Schiit.
Nothing weird about that.
Most of the artifacts measured I consider inaudible or barely audible myself (not that I set any standards here)
VERY measurable though.

The reported preference seems to come from musicians and recording techs in this case. I think some of them should know what they are talking about. The usual wife is even included.

Amir measures and has nice equipment to do that with. It shows differences that are so well below any audible limits and don't think need to be questioned. When Amir recommends something or not based on measurements it is fine to do so.
As long as it is clear it is based on measurements.

When someone recommends a DAC based on their sonic preference this is fine too as long as it is clear it is based on sonic preference.

No need to bite each others head of.

Ethan's loopback test (20 loops) seems like a thing that should be done here. For the RME this is simple enough.
For the Schiit it is more difficult for 'golden eared' folks as one would need the well measuring but 'poor sounding' RME to record it.

Still I would recommend to do this. As he has a recording studio this is VERY easy to do as he MUST have another recording device that 'sounds great' so problem solved.

So after an hour or so looping recordings topazzo has 2 different recorded files (as said would be easy to do in a studio) that he can share with us.
These files can be analyzed to death by measurement buffs and golden eared counterparts.
Both can then tell which recording sounds/measures the best.
Surely that must have some 'truth looking appeal' that is easy to do and will interest any recording engineer.

problem solved.

So hereby my request to @topazzo

Can you do the loopback test and upload the files along with the original recording.
Use music that is very 'revealing' to you.
 
Last edited:

daftcombo

Major Contributor
Patreon Donor
Joined
Feb 5, 2019
Messages
1,439
Likes
1,123
Which measurement can account for the separation of instruments, said to be better with the Yggdrasil?
 

SIY

Technical Expert
Technical Expert
Joined
Apr 6, 2018
Messages
3,255
Likes
6,038
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Which measurement can account for the separation of instruments, said to be better with the Yggdrasil?
The same sort of measurements that were used here.
 

vitalii427

Active Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2017
Messages
164
Likes
175
Location
Kiev, Ukraine
The previous discussion led me to share my experience with Yggdrasil. I'm the one who sold my Yggdrasil and now happy with my DS DACs. Here I wrote why.

I had Yggdrasil V1 for more than a year. For some time I was really happy because I was first who bring it to my far far away restless country. I've read all the reviews and all threads about it. I even bought Mutec MC3+USB to feed Ygg. And it seemed to me that Ygg sounds better than my internal DAC in Classe CP-800 mk2 preamp. I've loaned it to many local audiophiles. They compared it to units at 10x price. And many of them swear it was one the best DACs on Earth. And one surprising coincidence - a blind musician took part in one of the listening events, he also praised Yggdrasil.

So I confess guilty I was one of those who started this hype in my region. Unfortunately I couldn't hear so clearly all those differences comparing Ygg with few other separate DACs I have in different setups both on speakers and headphones. One day I was sure it is there (the difference). The other day there were none. And it was irritating so I started to find more objective proofs that my Ygg is really the best.

By that time I already read ASR sometimes. I have an EE degree and I understand measurements quite enough. Seeing not the best measurement results of Ygg (Amir was not the first here) I tried few exhausting blind listening tests with Linn Akurate DS (non-Katalyst). Thanks to Amir I know all that importance of exact level matching. And I was frustrated. I found that changing level by 0.5dB is much more noticeable than the difference between these two DACs. But no statistically proven difference when matched. I thought maybe I was just deaf but few online blind tests say otherwise. I definitely will try Ethan's test.

Since then I've read all reviews done by Amir and I must say in those issues where I have my own experience, his conclusions often coincide with mine. I have yet to met such a competent and open minded reviewer always ready for a rational discussion. Therefore Amir’s opinion is of great value to me.
 

digititus

Active Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2018
Messages
117
Likes
161
@topazzo - Maybe you did, maybe you didn't. The point of procedure in science is for it to be repeatable and verifiable. The idea of this community is measuring audio equipment according to scientific principles. Therefore, forgive the skepticism, but you sadly fail the "smell" test. There is no substance to your claims and your word isn't good enough, regardless of your honest intentions. But thanks for the charming report!
 
Joined
Dec 27, 2018
Messages
16
Likes
13
Don't forget about the 8 year old "daddy, the RME doesn't sound good."

On which planet would an 8 year old say something like that about hifi gear let alone the exact company name :rolleyes:
Lol, that's the one that really got me.
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
22,735
Likes
35,531
Location
Seattle Area
Don't forget about the 8 year old "daddy, the RME doesn't sound good."
I missed that:
I was open without an end...if the RME had convinced me...the Yggdrasil would have left Ebay immediately. My son, 8 years young, said daddy, the RME doesn't sound good.
Voices scratch so...
Voices scratchy on one of the top audio interface product used for so much audio production? @topazzo should post his feedback on gearslutz forum and see how long he stays alive after that. :)

How far we go to confuse ourselves in this hobby is amazing. If this were cars, folks would think attaching helium balloons to the bumpers would make it float higher and hence, accelerate faster!
 

rmo

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2018
Messages
67
Likes
41
I missed that:


Voices scratchy on one of the top audio interface product used for so much audio production? @topazzo should post his feedback on gearslutz forum and see how long he stays alive after that. :)

How far we go to confuse ourselves in this hobby is amazing. If this were cars, folks would think attaching helium balloons to the bumpers would make it float higher and hence, accelerate faster!
When they were doing the blind testing, the 8 year old was mouthing Schiit , shit , shit while everyone was listening as he switched the output ! LOL
 

trl

Addicted to Fun and Learning
King of Mods
Joined
Feb 28, 2018
Messages
794
Likes
691
Location
Iasi, RO
It's quite possible there are lots of folks around preferring the Schiit.
Nothing weird about that.
Most of the artifacts measured I consider inaudible or barely audible myself (not that I set any standards here)
VERY measurable though.
[...]
I must confess: I like Schiit, as a company, because they build things from scratch, so they own the design, it's not a simple copy-paste from the datasheet.
They explained why are not using toroids inside their devices, and why they do prefer very low-noise linear regulators and many other technical aspects.
I like their PCBs and the airy design, the metallic cases (especially when used as an EMI/RFI shield). I also like that they don't much use opamps, instead they use J-FETs. Some of their devices are quite cheap and quite affordable, so that's a good thing. Oh, their FAQ is totally awesome, for each of their devices.

Although, some Schiit devices, is clear for everyone, that are not the best measuring in the world, but I'm sure their final price is covering the "Made in U.S.A." labour, R&D, warranty, so probably the price may not reflect the measurements, like we would like to think. :(

Now, what I don't understand is why they're not using a shield between the transformer and the audio parts, at least a double sided thick grounded PCB could reduce with few dBs the mains hum, which is definitely present in most of Schiit devices? Why not changing the almost obsolete USB C-Media transport in favour of a XMOS? Also, why so much aversion about the DSD format, when most customers and AV magazines are now considering DSD as being a feature?

[...] Seeing not the best measurement results of Ygg (Amir was not the first here) I tried few exhausting blind listening tests with Linn Akurate DS (non-Katalyst). Thanks to Amir I know all that importance of exact level matching. And I was frustrated. I found that changing level by 0.5dB is much more noticeable than the difference between these two DACs. But no statistically proven difference when matched. I thought maybe I was just deaf but few online blind tests say otherwise. I definitely will try Ethan's test.
[...]
The same 0.5dB difference was spotted by me in audiocheck.net blind tests, so 0.5dB is, like you said, audible. I just imagine an A/B test with volume matching on one channel only, the left one, but the right channel of DAC-A is having a higher amplitude (+0.25dB) and the right channel from DAC-B is having a lower amplitude (-0.25dB), so here's a 0.5dB channel difference with an "imaging" and "soundstage" difference in an A/B test. :)

L.E.: I don't have any Schiit audio gear at home, although I want it to buy a Gungnir 3-4 years ago. Can't remember what stoped me.
 

Music1969

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
620
Likes
183
The dacs were controlled by the Project Stream Box S2 Ultra. iMac late 2017 / Audirvana / Hqplayer / Reaper
We used three different apps to correct the room:
--Dirac Live via vst/audiounit
--Mathaudio room EQ
--Acourate via convolver in Audirvana / engine in Hqplayer
Can you please share the HQP settings used for each DAC?

PCM or SDM upsampling?
What dither or modulator option?
Filter?
Sample rate?

Thanks in advance
 
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
84
Likes
44
Now, what I don't understand is why they're not using a shield between the transformer and the audio parts, at least a double sided thick grounded PCB could reduce with few dBs the mains hum, which is definitely present in most of Schiit devices? Why not changing the almost obsolete USB C-Media transport in favour of a XMOS? Also, why so much aversion about the DSD format, when most customers and AV magazines are now considering DSD as being a feature?
Schiit did offer DSD support briefly with the original Loki, an outboard DSD box that is no longer being sold. They also have stated publicly they will never support MQA. You may not be aware that Schiit has developed their own proprietary USB receiver which will be introduced about the time Windows 7 reaches end of extended support life next January. I believe they only want to have to concentrate on Win 8 and 10 drivers, along with Mac and Linux.

 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
22,735
Likes
35,531
Location
Seattle Area
You may not be aware that Schiit has developed their own proprietary USB receiver which will be introduced about the time Windows 7 reaches end of extended support life next January. I believe they only want to have to concentrate on Win 8 and 10 drivers, along with Mac and Linux.
I have seen that interview. Likely they are using an embedded USB core in an FPGA. If so, I wish them luck as compatibility testing with be hell. Instead of spending their time designing audio, they will be fighting USB issues.
 

JJB70

Major Contributor
Patreon Donor
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Messages
1,826
Likes
3,706
Location
Milton Keynes, England
I think that they should concentrate on making their gear safe to use as their first priority. Figure out what grounding and double insulation is for the purpose of electrical safety. I also think that a quick win for them would be to address the sharp edges on many of their products, that is not advanced risk management. Personally, a product could be the best performing product in the world, if I didn't have confidence that the manufacturer was reliable in terms of product safety I wouldn't buy it.
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2018
Messages
136
Likes
113
Location
Toronto
I dunno where to post this but I figure here might be fine since the Yggy is relevant to the post: I’m going to be picking up a Antelope Pure2 to compare to Yggdrasil. Anybody have experience with the Antelope Pure2?
 

Similar threads

Top Bottom