Review and Measurements of Schiit Modi 3 DAC

[amirm]

So, does the Topping D30 have a SINAD of 103 dB or 106 dB. I guess it does not really matter.

I have created templates that I now consistently use with my new analyzer. Things like bandwidth and sample rate make differences. So I say the new number is more reliable than the old. But yes, those differences in general are not very material.

 

[gvl]

How important is all this below 96dB for 16 bit audio? I realize it's not too important, but is there any, even if tiny, benefit of say 110dB SINAD over 100dB for redbook material?

 

[Grave]

How important is all this below 96dB for 16 bit audio? I realize it's not too important, but is there any, even if tiny, benefit of say 110dB SINAD over 100dB for redbook material?

16 bit can have a much higher SNR than 96 dB with noise shaping.

 

[gvl]

16 bit can have a much higher SNR than 96 dB with noise shaping.

Is this basically because of oversampling and interpolation?

 

[amirm]

Is this basically because of oversampling and interpolation?

No. Instead of the noise floor being flat, you can equalize it so that more of it is in the inaudible range (preferably above 20 kHz).

 

[amirm]

How important is all this below 96dB for 16 bit audio?

Well, it is all additive. You have to think of how much your amplifier adds to it.

 

[gvl]

Well, it is all additive. You have to think of how much your amplifier adds to it.

Probably enough to make the DAC contribution irrelevant.

 

[oliveoilthansnakeoil]

If I had picked a different test tones, USB measurement could be shown to be as good as S/PDIF .

amir, I don't understand. Does it mean their linearity will be good for normal use?

 

[amirm]

amir, I don't understand. Does it mean their linearity will be good for normal use

Yes. That was the same issue with truncation to 16 bits in ASIO4ALL. While I don't have a way to confirm right now, I suspect it will be as good as S/PDIF and hence very good.

 

[trl]

Major progress on USB issue.

I fed it a -90 dB signal and it reproduced stepped response which meant it was converting 24 bit samples to 16 bits! Worrying this was caused by the ASIO4ALL wrapper I am using, I tried it in Roon. At first, saw the same problem but all of a sudden, it snapped to 24 bit and it is staying there!

View attachment 15989

Going back to using ASIO4ALL, I see the problem again.

This is a rare incompatibility with ASIO4ALL. I still can't figure out how Schiit didn't see it unless they have an internal ASIO driver they don't release.

Looks awesome, so the SINAD would be now 106-107dB for Modi3-USB if using correct drivers & software, right?

 

[trl]

So.... comparing Schiit Modi 3 over USB to anything else is a pain in the behind because my AP software can no longer control it. I have sent email to Schiit asking them if they have an ASIO driver for it.
[...]
Putting Modi 3, Topping D30 and D50 we now get this for SINAD:

View attachment 16027

[...]

I think bottom line is the same as before: Schiit has made a massive improvement in their budget DAC implementation, substantially erasing any advantage Topping products used to have. Some vestiges of old problems such as jitter remain but they are small enough to be ignored.

OK, I think I got it now: this is the best Schiit ever measured on ASR.
I'm glad to see a great measuring Schiit DAC, especially it's their cheapest.

 

[avatar]

Can you test the smsl sanskrit pro with your new equipment/methodology ?

That said, hard to make a case for audibility in Modi 3 either due the fact that we don't have 0 dB 12 Khz tones in our music.

what's the point of testing at 12khz ? Any particular reason for choosing that frequency ?

I don't get why in your first tests you had those 100hz spikes and in the most recent tests the 250hz ones.
These last results are in any why affected by the usb driver like before ?

thanks

 

[SIY]

what's the point of testing at 12khz ? Any particular reason for choosing that frequency ?

Generally, the jitter test is a fundamental at 1/4 the sampling frequency, with the LF (250 Hz) one digit toggle. So 12kHz for a 48k sample rate.

 

[amirm]

In ASIO4ALL there is the option "Force WDM Driver To 16 Bit". Maybe it is (for whatever reason) accidentally enabled?

It isn't. I toggled that back and forth when I saw the issue and it made no difference.

 

[garbulky]

It isn't. I toggled that back and forth when I saw the issue and it made no difference.

Is there a chance that this impacted measurements of other dacs like the previous Modi and the yggy?

 

[amirm]

Is there a chance that this impacted measurements of other dacs like the previous Modi and the yggy?

For Yggy no because I ran a bunch of using AES input because that is what others had tested. See this for example: https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...ts-of-schiit-yggdrasil-v2-dac.3607/post-86411. The signature there was quite different anyway (clear mains frequency interference).

For Modi 2 uber I used my old analyzer with S/PDIF since my analyzer didn't support USB anyway: https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...n-of-schiit-modi-2-uber-and-topping-d30.3207/

The measurement I made in this review was for USB so it is possible it has the same issue. I will check.

 

[garbulky]

For Yggy no because I ran a bunch of using AES input because that is what others had tested. See this for example: https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...ts-of-schiit-yggdrasil-v2-dac.3607/post-86411. The signature there was quite different anyway (clear mains frequency interference).

For Modi 2 uber I used my old analyzer with S/PDIF since my analyzer didn't support USB anyway: https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...n-of-schiit-modi-2-uber-and-topping-d30.3207/

The measurement I made in this review was for USB so it is possible it has the same issue. I will check.

I meant you used ASIO right with the AES connection? Or is that simply a USB thing....

 

[amirm]

I meant you used ASIO right with the AES connection?

Why would I use ASIO with AES connection? My analyzer generates AES directly. I don't use a PC/USB for that.

 

[PuX]

Grace design was on loan unfortunately and I no longer have it to measure. I do have JDS Labs ODAC or whatever it is called though.

can you include OL DAC in one of the next tests as a point of comparison? it's a popular DAC and it wasn't tested on your new setup.

//I already have an OL DAC and bought and SDAC this weekend, it'll be fun to attempt to hear the difference. especially considering how close they were in measurements.

 

[garbulky]

Why would I use ASIO with AES connection? My analyzer generates AES directly. I don't use a PC/USB for that.

Gotcha, I thought you had some pro card in your PC with one.