Review and Measurements of Schiit Lyr Tube Headphone Amplifier

[FrivolsListener]

Apropos of nothing, because of your rave review, I got a Topping D30 to put in my system. It quite literally got here by slow boat, so it arrived today. I want to spend some time listening to what you measured.

 

[RayDunzl]

Someone asked me for DC offset. So i measured both amps with small amplitude output to see that. First Schiit Magni 3:

Are we measuring voltage in meters now?

 

[amirm]

Are we measuring voltage in meters now?

Sorry, that is millivolt. Took me a bit to figure out what you were asking.

 

[amirm]

My big assumption is that you unplugged the dummy load under these conditions. A TRS (headphone) plug momentarily shorts a channel when you unplug the connector. The Magni 3 has no overcurrent protection.

If it has no overload protection, that certainly could explain it. I will look again to see if I can find something that has smoked. The unit is fully functional though as I did my listening tests at the end of the measurements. And tested it again today.

 

[FrivolsListener]

If it has no overload protection, that certainly could explain it. I will look again to see if I can find something that has smoked. The unit is fully functional though as I did my listening tests at the end of the measurements. And tested it again today.

It's a tiny amp. Usually audio lovers turn down their amps when plugging in and unplugging a headphone. If there's solder damage, look for solder balls in the bottom of the case.

Does any $100 amp have overcurrent relays?

 

[kristoffer]

Anyone seen any measurements with the Schiit LISST "tubes"? I wonder how much closer to the Magni 3 the Lyr would get with them. The price of a par of "tubes" is the same as the Magni...

 

[Jimster480]

Another great review, it does indeed seem that if you plug your D30 into a Magni 3 or a lyr that you will lose some accuracy :/
Lets see now which amps can pull the best accuracy.

Did you notice any balance issues with the Magni3 at low volume? That was the main issue that i had with mine, especially with so much power that sensitive headphones cannot have any sort of volume control :/

 

[Wombat]

FrivolsListener,

Maybe, maybe not. No short-circuit protection on a modern output plug/unplug device is poor design. I have never encountered this in over 50 years of using headphones.

 

[amirm]

Did you notice any balance issues with the Magni3 at low volume? That was the main issue that i had with mine, especially with so much power that sensitive headphones cannot have any sort of volume control :/

I measured it but didn't listen. Will do that when I get a chance....

 

[Cosmik]

Audiophilia strikes again. People are prepared to strap things to their heads or even put things right in their ears that are connected to 500V power supplies or driven by amplifiers that have been created deliberately by self-proclaimed 'eccentric mavericks' to be different i.e. DC-coupled, high powered, 'discrete', 'novel feedback topology', etc. For all we know they may oscillate ultrasonically or, in the event of a component or connection failure put the full power supply out onto the headphones. These people have previously created amplifiers that visibly warped headphone diaphragms at power off.

Such devices should really be designed almost like medical equipment or have idiot-proof fail-safes.

 

[Wombat]

Audiophilia strikes again. People are prepared to strap things to their heads or even put things right in their ears that are connected to 500V power supplies or driven by amplifiers that have been created deliberately by self-proclaimed 'eccentric mavericks' to be different i.e. DC-coupled, high powered, 'discrete', 'novel feedback topology', etc. For all we know they may oscillate ultrasonically or, in the event of a component or connection failure put the full power supply out onto the headphones. These people have previously created amplifiers that visibly warped headphone diaphragms at power off.

Such devices should really be designed almost like medical equipment or have idiot-proof fail-safes.

Agree. No qualifications or veracity in lots of products.

 

[FrivolsListener]

FrivolsListener,

Maybe, maybe not. No short-circuit protection on a modern output plug/unplug device is poor design. I have never encountered this in over 50 years of using headphones.

All I'm doing is guessing. Again, it's a sub $100 amp, with a very low output impedance. Does your Fiio have overcurrent protection, or does the design just not have the capability of delivering that much current?

And I'm making boatloads of assumptions about things that I must emphasize I don't know:

• The amp was being driven at full power with a tone test or a sweep
• @anirm unplugged the load then
• My formulas are meaningful in that situation

How often do you listen to a continuous tone driving an amp into clipping when you unplug a headphone? It's a reasonable corner case to not worry about.

 

[Cosmik]

How often do you listen to a continuous tone driving an amp into clipping when you unplug a headphone? It's a reasonable corner case to not worry about.

I've never heard of such an idea in my life: that it should be permissible for perfectly normal use of a device, like unplugging headphones while listening to any kind of content whatsoever, to result is instability, smoke, etc. The exact nature of the 'trigger' is unimportant: the fact that it could ever happen tells you that there's something seriously amiss with what should be a trivial circuit.

 

[amirm]

I agree. Personally I think a headphone amp has to be bullet-proof. If it costs a bit more so be it. I just can't imagine blowing up a headphone amp because I forgot to turn down the volume which I pull out the plug.

 

[FrivolsListener]

I've never heard of such an idea in my life: that it should be permissible for perfectly normal use of a device, like unplugging headphones while listening to any kind of content whatsoever, to result is instability, smoke, etc. The exact nature of the 'trigger' is unimportant: the fact that it could ever happen tells you that there's something seriously amiss with what should be a trivial circuit.

I doubt you'd have anything to worry about when listening to content. But that's the equivalent to running the amp at full volume with a tone and shorting it. Other solid state amps can do bad things under those circumstances. And again, I'm only guessing.

Tangentially related -- blowing up speakers using content to destroy amps or abusing the amp itself: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.audio/RQhkcO0TgdM

 

[watchnerd]

Wasn't there a problem with the original Asgard zapping phones on power on / off?

Seems like lack of protective circuits has happened before.

 

[FrivolsListener]

Wasn't there a problem with the original Asgard zapping phones on power on / off?

Seems like lack of protective circuits has happened before.

Yes, there was no relay to prevent initial thumps, IIRC. Jason initially handled it very very badly. He wrote about it in his blog/book, and the thread on head-fi is preserved so you can see how he (mis)handled it.

I reiterate -- what solid state amp under 100 bucks would fare well on a momentary dead short while being driven to clipping with a continuous tone? My guess is battery ones and ones incapable of handling transients would fare best. But the latter isn't exactly a desirable attribute.

My very old stereo had fuses for this use case, but it cost a bit more than $100.

 

[mindbomb]

The power switch is on the rear on the magni 3, so it also isn't as convenient to turn off before unplugging headphones as other amps. But idk how big a deal this all is. Do you necessarily need to be at clipping? What if you were using 600 ohm headphones? You would have a 1000x increase in power. But I don't think people use a lot of power in general with headphones, maybe typically only 1-10mw peak.

 

[Wombat]

Yes, there was no relay to prevent initial thumps, IIRC. Jason initially handled it very very badly. He wrote about it in his blog/book, and the thread on head-fi is preserved so you can see how he (mis)handled it.

I reiterate -- what solid state amp under 100 bucks would fare well on a momentary dead short while being driven to clipping with a continuous tone? My guess is battery ones and ones incapable of handling transients would fare best. But the latter isn't exactly a desirable attribute.

My very old stereo had fuses for this use case, but it cost a bit more than $100.

My guess?? ASR.

Batteries can deliver ample current depending on design parameters.
Transients tend to be short period, low energy.

Solid state power amps <$100, for many years, generally utilise chip-amps with inherent protections.

 

[FrivolsListener]

My guess?? ASR.

Batteries can deliver ample current depending on design parameters.

Yes. Some lithium batteries are designed for long life, low current (button cells) and some will melt things. Likewise with, say, lead-acid batteries. But my toy Fiio amp couldn't deliver that much current.

Transients tend to be short period, low energy.

Solid state power amps <$100, for many years, generally utilise chip-amps with inherent protections.

Low energy, perhaps, but high impulse draw. A current limiting resistor, for a naive design, would be disasterous for transient response.

My stereo with the speaker fuses that I mentioned earlier was a refurb. The first owner, despite the speaker fuses, smoked the output stage, and all drivers had to be replaced.

Now, pardon me while I go read what I've missed in this thread and then do some work. Probably in that order...