Review and Measurements of Schiit Jotunheim and iFi iDSD Black Label DACs and Headphone Amps

[svart-hvitt]

Unfortunately as I just noted, the bottom of the case is not grounded either! So both of them are in the "none" category.

@amirm , have you considered the death risk of measuring and playing with sChitty gear?

 

[garbulky]

Not really, its only the Schiit supporters club that keep the questions coming, hoping for some saviour reason to be unearthed...….

Your behavior has been to label me or stereotype me as you see fit. There's no real civility here or polite discourse here. I do not want to converse with you further.

 

[Ron Texas]

I continue to be amazed that even with consistent weak measurements of Schiit gear they have many fans to the point of cult status. Either a lot of people can't hear the noise and distortion or they like how it must muddy up the sound.

 

[amirm]

@amirm , have you considered the death risk of measuring and playing with sChitty gear?

Well, I did get killed once this way. I wanted to come back as a horse but Thomas had already claimed that. So I am back as a dog.

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

Well, I did get killed once this way. I wanted to come back as a horse but Thomas had already claimed that. So I am back as a dog.

Why not a Lobster?

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

I continue to be amazed that even with consistent weak measurements of Schiit gear they have many fans to the point of cult status. Either a lot of people can't hear the noise and distortion or they like how it must muddy up the sound.

Curious, have you heard this muddiness, or are you just judging from the measurements?

 

[rmo]

Curious, have you heard this muddiness, or are you just judging from the measurements?

Yes, the key question for measurements is can the human ear hear the measurement difference. I really appreciate Amirm's site and glad to see the measurements. I do think he is providing a valuable service to the public.
I notice the Benchmark Dac1 measured better the the Yggdrasil . For about a year , I listened to both extensively. The Yggdrasil sounded better to my ears with high end amps and speakers by a large margin. The Dac1 was very thin sounding with harsh treble.

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

Yes, the key question for measurements is can the human ear hear the measurement difference. I really appreciate Amirm's site and glad to see the measurements. I do think he is providing a valuable service to the public.
I notice the Benchmark Dac1 measured better the the Yggdrasil . For about a year , I listened to both extensively. The Yggdrasil sounded better to my ears with high end amps and speakers by a large margin. The Dac1 was very thin sounding with harsh treble.

Your experience mirrors mine.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Your experience mirrors mine.

Enjoy your Schiit, guys. I would not touch it with a 10-foot insulated pole.

 

[Ron Texas]

Curious, have you heard this muddiness, or are you just judging from the measurements?

I had a Modi Uber 2 for a few days and sent it back because whenever my computer rebooted it made a pop like a shotgun going off. As for the muddiness, I am guessing from the measurements. It's possible that it might be something like the higher noise and distortion levels and lower resolution softens things up. Whatever it is, I am reluctant to accept that people love Schiit products for no other reason than someone else said so and they are copying what others say. Schiit products don't measure well, and the instruments don't lie

 

[nahpungnome]

Ah, welcome to ASR Forum. Thanks for chiming in. Didn't realize yours was a black one. I wonder if the manufacturing process is different on that.

Thanks! Yeah I figured mine being black wasn't important since I had to probe inside the hole and not just place it on top. I'd assume date of purchase and actual assembly date would matter more.

Another user on the Reddit thread said his was grounded while another guy started a completely different thread with some of the noise symptoms on his Jot. At least Schiit is consistent with their inconsistency .

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

I had a Modi Uber 2 for a few days and sent it back because whenever my computer rebooted it made a pop like a shotgun going off. As for the muddiness, I am guessing from the measurements. It's possible that it might be something like the higher noise and distortion levels and lower resolution softens things up. Whatever it is, I am reluctant to accept that people love Schiit products for no other reason than someone else said so and they are copying what others say. Schiit products don't measure well, and the instruments don't lie

Never had that DAC, but the Modi multibit does sound very good. Surges are not good for speakers or headphones. I really think it is a bit unfair to attribute peoples preferences to mass hysteria. IMO measurements do not necessarily reflect preferred sound qualities. YMMV

On a side note, this entire grounding issue is a non-issue IMO. I understand the fearless leader does not like when people disagree but: Until one really manufactures product one does not fully understand all that is involved. Schiit would not sell a dangerous product, no real manufacturer would. To think anything else is rather misguided IMO. The item ground is floated with no exposed high voltage. As far as the ground lug on the IEC this was the same thing noted with SAL's unit. There is no reason not use a standard IEC without the ground connected if no ground is required. The standard IEC allows easy power cord availability and just uniformity across the product line, chassis punching etc.

Be honest, do you really think a manufacturer is that stupid? Would they really want lawsuits? There are a lot of opinions on the net, but many are not grounded in reality. Schiit is a business started by hard working people that has created jobs for people, feeds families and help communities. Is that a bad thing? It is pretty foolish IMO to paint them as some evil greedy guys just out to rob consumers. Anyone who thinks that needs to look at themselves because to think that way IMO shows their lack of character, not Schiits.

 

[Ron Texas]

Never had that DAC, but the Modi multibit does sound very good. Surges are not good for speakers or headphones. I really think it is a bit unfair to attribute peoples preferences to mass hysteria. IMO measurements do not necessarily reflect preferred sound qualities. YMMV

I don't like it when the word meme is used to describe behavior that is more likely to be a matter of choice. For that reason I doubt people's like for all things Schiit is mass hysteria, meme or whatever kind of mindless behavior some would attribute to it. Perhaps less than perfect sounds good to some. There are many who complain of a "house sound" from ESS chips which could be described as glare, artificial detail, a forward or unrelaxed presentation. One member of this forum said that is a meme and total BS. Perhaps people who like Schiit DAC's hear that ESS sound and want something else. I do believe that if a lot of people are hearing the same thing it is more likely they are really hearing it than just mindlessly copying the opinions of others.

However, the iFi unit measured significantly better than the Schiit, and lots of people are in love with it. The Auralic DAC has excellent measurements and is highly regarded by many.

 

[rmo]

Enjoy your Schiit, guys. I would not touch it with a 10-foot insulated pole.

Have you listened to these the two DACs I mentioned extensively side by side ? Doubt it .

 

[amirm]

On a side note, this entire grounding issue is a non-issue IMO. I understand the fearless leader does not like when people disagree but: Until one really manufactures product one does not fully understand all that is involved.

I have manufactured equipment, and repaired hundreds and hundreds of pieces of electronics. There is no excuse whatsoever for building an unsafe product. Company has acknowledged that they did not check to make sure chassis is has proper connection to mains safety ground. So your continued objections are without merit.

As I promised, thread ban is issued to you. Some things are up for debate. Screwing with people's safety is not.

 

[gvl]

...On a side note, this entire grounding issue is a non-issue IMO...

It is more of a WTF issue. Why would anyone connect audio ground to equipment ground but not the chassis? I get the Emotiva situation, kind of. But this is a complete mess.

 

[amirm]

I don't like it when the word meme is used to describe behavior that is more likely to be a matter of choice. For that reason I doubt people's like for all things Schiit is mass hysteria, meme or whatever kind of mindless behavior some would attribute to it. Perhaps less than perfect sounds good to some.

I can share my experience as one of the earliest customers of Schiit (4 to 5 years ago). I heard about the company and thought anyone calling a company that, must be straight shooters and build good quality, no nonsense product. So when my son came to me and complained that his current sound card was transmitting noise to his headphones, I suggested he buy Schiit. He proceeded to buy the Schiit BiFrost, Magni and an RCA interconnect.

The gear arrives and he calls me again and says he still hears computer noise through all of this after spending $1,000! I go there and lecture him that this is not possible and that he must be imagining it. Just in case, I put it on bench and measure it and fall off my chair when I confirm the same. And I measure the worst Jitter of any product I had ever tested -- then or now.

While testing, all of a sudden one channel went out. After a bunch of troubleshooting I found out it was the RCA cables he had bought from them! I open it and the center pin had broken off at the solder point due to lack of strain relief and shoddy soldering.

He returned the DAC, and cables and got his money back. I told him in there to tell them that I had measured it and found these problems. I expected them to care and want to contact me. But no one did.

In summary, I and I think countless people have given them the benefit of doubt. They are masterful at using the social media as a marketing tool. For just a few dollars in sponsorship on head-fi, they got their own threads and became folk heroes due to absence of other designers and manufacturers being so active. Combine that with our hearing not be so good and people buy the stuff and hugely so.

What has happened now is that they have become complacent. They think they are so powerful socially that they can paper over any fault with impunity. They stomped on my feet so hard when I went to head-fi to chat with them that blew my mind. They have been able to shrug off any criticism with incredible amount of power and freedom.

With advent of ASR Forum and crazy guy like me at the helm , the dynamics are changed and they are slowly learning to adapt. No longer can they take away the oxygen from someone saying something is not right about their product.

I expect longer term they will improve what they are doing. It is just that they are aimless in the short-term, not realizing that the best path forward is full transparency, professionalism and cooperation.

 

[Ron Texas]

@amirm as noted above, I experienced transient sounds on computer boot up and shut down which were at shotgun blast levels with a Modi 2 Uber. They told me I needed a preamp so I could turn the volume down. Recently, I simply mentioned that the Yaggi did not measure well in a different forum. My post was deleted and I was barred from the thread for "crapping" it. People sure are sensitive.

 

[amirm]

@amirm as noted above, I experienced transient sounds on computer boot up and shut down which were at shotgun blast levels with a Modi 2 Uber. They told me I needed a preamp so I could turn the volume down. Recently, I simply mentioned that the Yaggi did not measure well in a different forum. My post was deleted and I was barred from the thread for "crapping" it. People sure are sensitive.

I am hoping that these actions become more rare as time progresses and people start to believe the independent research we perform here into product performance.

And regardless, until I am dead and buried, we will have ASR Forum for free discussions.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I am hoping that these actions become more rare as time progresses and people start to believe the independent research we perform here into product performance.

And regardless, until I am dead and buried, we will have ASR Forum for free discussions.

Well when the site was unavailable earlier today I had worried the Schiit mafia had found your location. I feared when the site returned it would be called audioschiitreview.com with new policies and 'correct' measurements of all the Schiit gear.