Review and Measurements of Schiit Jotunheim and iFi iDSD Black Label DACs and Headphone Amps

[amirm]

Sorry for being offtopic, but why does headphones like the HD600 and HD650 (both 300 ohms impedance) sounds great on OTL tube amps like the Bottlehead Crack + Speedball, even though the crack has a massive output impedance of 120 ohms? It is nowhere near the 1/8 rule for ideal damping though?

The frequency response of the headphone changes with that high impedance. That change may be favorable or not depending on the headphone.

 

[mindbomb]

You haven't missed it as I have not posted those results.

I will see if I can get a few charts done today to post.

The power vs distortion chart wasn't done with analog in? Would it change the standings of the ifi and the schiit?

 

[amirm]

And here are the effects of the 3-D button and Xbass individually on iFi iDSD Black Edition:

So the 3-D mode doesn't change the frequency response at all.

Xbass does of course and by large amount. It even attenuates the mid to highs for good effect.

 

[amirm]

The power vs distortion chart wasn't done with analog in? Would it change the standings of the ifi and the schiit?

All measurements were made with USB input in the original review as stated. I can re-run one. Which one would you like?

 

[Randem Tox]

Also, the analog generator in my APx555 analyzer is better than any DAC so the comparison becomes rather unfair to iFi iDSD Black which is using its DAC (has no analog input to test).

The iFi Micro iDSD BL very definitely DOES have an analog input. It's right there, smack-bang in the middle of the unit's front panel, clearly labelled.

 

[dir]

i was tested iDSD input on 300 Ohm load - nothing special (THD = 0.00214%)

 

[Veri]

The manufacturer emphasizes that at a frequency of 384 kHz DAC works in Bit-Perfect mode, but actually it does not make sense on the specified chip. The sampling limit for the DSD1793 is 200 kHz, so any DXD will be filtered at a frequency of 100 kHz, which is confirmed by the measurements. The format limit for such a device is PCM 192 kHz and DSD64, all that is higher is just the characteristics of the receiver, not the true DAC mode.

That's something very curious. The newest iFi iDSD 'Pro' utilizes four DSD1793 chips in a "custom interleaved" set-up.
They claim support up to DSD512, and even feature internal upsampling (they call it "remastering" which is pretty lame) up to DSD1024.

Is this all BS if you say the format limit is theoretically DSD64...? Just trying to understand.

 

[amirm]

The iFi Micro iDSD BL very definitely DOES have an analog input. It's right there, smack-bang in the middle of the unit's front panel, clearly labelled.

Oh, I looked in the back and missed that 3.5 mm connector being an input on the front panel. I just shut down everything so will have to test it later.

 

[mindbomb]

All measurements were made with USB input in the original review as stated. I can re-run one. Which one would you like?

I'm wondering with analog in, if the ifi is still superior to the jotunheim. Let's say with the 33 ohm load.

Also, I'm wondering if the relative standing of balanced vs unbalanced headphone out on the jotunheim changes with the analog in, on the 50 ohm load.

 

[bunkbail]

The frequency response of the headphone changes with that high impedance. That change may be favorable or not depending on the headphone.

That makes perfect sense. Thanks.

 

[dir]

actually i can't imagine why we need dsd1024 support
no content,
no native mode for DSD1793

when i want to listening "special DSD sound signature" - i hear it well even on DSD64
but its a good news about resampling to DSD inside DAC. Because If you try to use it as upsampling tool on Jriver or Audirvana it will be so loud (coolers speed) or just burn away your processor

 

[svart-hvitt]

It's dangerous, plain and simple and Schiit need to recall the units and repair the lack of effective casework earthing.

Please post a few pics of the internals- I think we need to see how well insulated the primaries are, both under the transformers and above.

e

I fell for their marketing, too. But the gear did work, and I never did electrocute myself. So maybe I was lucky. So perhaps Amir will advise on the safety aspects.

I have, however, sold off all of my Schiit on eBay.

Is it ethical to sell unsafe gear to unsuspecting people?

 

[IdiotCustomer]

e


Is it ethical to sell unsafe gear to unsuspecting people?

I think you'd have a hard time finding someone wanting to argue for the "it's ethical" point in a debate

 

[Jimster480]

That's something very curious. The newest iFi iDSD 'Pro' utilizes four DSD1793 chips in a "custom interleaved" set-up.
They claim support up to DSD512, and even feature internal upsampling (they call it "remastering" which is pretty lame) up to DSD1024.

Is this all BS if you say the format limit is theoretically DSD64...? Just trying to understand.

This is called marketing.
THey can just keep ratcheting up the supported formats even if they aren't used.

 

[DuxServit]

>Schiity Yotunheim
savage.
I wonder why this company has so many fanboys. And why those fanboys refuse to acknowledge the faults of these products. A bit like Apple in recent years..

There is a whole research field on Social Analytics that is trying to understand group-behavior and even to predict outcomes of groups of people under certain circumstances or constraints.

People are NOT rational. Period. Despite what they say. This is true independent of education, social class, race, background etc.

A good example is “copying” (behavior of others). Another aspect is fearing to be left out, or be discovered to diverge from the current group opinion.

As a fun excercise, observe “New Product Announcement” threads on HF and CA

 

[IdiotCustomer]

There is a whole research field on Social Analytics that is trying to understand group-behavior and even to predict outcomes of groups of people under certain circumstances or constraints.

People are NOT rational. Period. Despite what they say. This is true independent of education, social class, race, background etc.

A good example is “copying” (behavior of others). Another aspect is fearing to be left out, or be discovered to diverge from the current group opinion.

As a fun excercise, observe “New Product Announcement” threads on HF and CA

It's the same with cars and computer hardware. The cost associated with the hobby make people determined to tell themselves that all that money must have been worth it. If you question the quality of the product you question the quality of their character. Or something like that

 

[nahpungnome]

I had one person report that theirs was grounded so perhaps yours is too.

Answering your original question, the risk of personal injury is exceptionally small. So for your own use I would not worry about it. The question becomes selling it without giving due notice to a buyer. And whether anyone would buy it if you gave them notice. If I were you and the problem is there, I would fix it and tell people that it has been fixed to deal with this issue.

That was me on Reddit Mine happens to be a black Jot with no add in modules, purchased Sept 2017. Redid the same tests later in the day and got a .3 to .4 ohm reading with my crappy Craftsman meter.

As I said on Reddit, I may have been jittery in the morning (type 1 diabetic), but later on the day I got a less jumpy .3 to .4 at both the RCA and case hole.

 

[Jimster480]

It's the same with cars and computer hardware. The cost associated with the hobby make people determined to tell themselves that all that money must have been worth it. If you question the quality of the product you question the quality of their character. Or something like that

Its very true, lots of people have overpriced cars with garbage performance. Because they bought a brand and bought into marketing.
Same in the computer field, where people like to pay more money for worse performance and then believe that its good just because they had a
"good experience".
Nvidia vs AMD, Intel vs AMD, Mercedes vs Cadillac, etc

 

[amirm]

That was me on Reddit Mine happens to be a black Jot with no add in modules, purchased Sept 2017. Redid the same tests later in the day and got a .3 to .4 ohm reading with my crappy Craftsman meter.

As I said on Reddit, I may have been jittery in the morning (type 1 diabetic), but later on the day I got a less jumpy .3 to .4 at both the RCA and case hole.

Ah, welcome to ASR Forum. Thanks for chiming in. Didn't realize yours was a black one. I wonder if the manufacturing process is different on that.

 

[andreasmaaan]

Its very true, lots of people have overpriced cars with garbage performance. Because they bought a brand and bought into marketing.
Same in the computer field, where people like to pay more money for worse performance and then believe that its good just because they had a
"good experience".
Nvidia vs AMD, Intel vs AMD, Mercedes vs Cadillac, etc

As a bit of an idiot when it comes to computers, I've always wondered about this. Is there generally any advantage to the Intels and Nvidias etc? Or do the cheaper competitors generally perform just as well? (Maybe too vague a question, I realise,)