Review and Measurements of Schiit Aegir PWR Amplifier

[anmpr1]

The main issue here is lack of power. To someone like me, with very large spaces, rather inefficient speakers and desire for bass that you feel as much as you here, the Aegir is definitely not for me. Nor do I buy into "Class A" having any benefit. If it had, it would show up in measurements. It does not.

I had a Yamaha amplifier with a front panel switch you could toggle between A and A-B. Power dropped from 100 watts/ch to about 20, I think. Try as I might I couldn't hear any difference between the two. I even tried to imagine a difference, but couldn't. Maybe for 'real' Class A experience you needed ML-2, or Krell gear. I just figured it was marketing shtick.

 

[amirm]

I had a Yamaha amplifier with a front panel switch you could toggle between A and A-B.

I repaired one of those back in 1980 or so! It was totally toast and I did not have schematic for it. Took me a while to get it working.

Try as I might I couldn't hear any difference between the two.

That was what I found! I was so ready to hear class A sounding better but made no difference at all.

 

[anmpr1]

I'm not familiar with theater sound products.
What speaker does 100db/w with bass down to at least 60 hz?

Richard Heyser in his 11/86 Audio Klipschorn review stated that FR was reasonably uniform from 38Hz cutoff to 18KHz. He measured 98dB with one watt, in his room.

 

[Cahudson42]

I don't disagree, but I must say the Schiit industrial design is quite nice.

But unfortunately, 'looks' is not we listen too..

 

[restorer-john]

And oh, I set up a nasty contraption to take the shots you see in this review. My wife has not seen it yet but I am sure once she does, you can add being homeless to the list of reasons I need money from you all!

OK, show it to us.

 

[restorer-john]

I repaired one of those back in 1980 or so! It was totally toast and I did not have schematic for it. Took me a while to get it working.

That was what I found! I was so ready to hear class A sounding better but made no difference at all.

The CA-800 or CA-1000 were renowned for a lot of issues, not the least of which were oxidised Omron microswitches on the Class A/AB switch. Two microswitches for the rail switching and a nasty silver plated enclosed mechanically coupled slide for the bias control. They caused a ton of collateral damage.

Switching rails is a risky thing at the best of times, letalone when the power is on and the microswitches are flaky.

Fixing those amplifiers back in 1980 without a schematic, especially when rail switching was a foreign concept, would have been no fun at all.

Here's the power stage with the relevant bias circuitry that couples to that bastard switch on the front panel.

 

[hyperknot]

For the same $799, I would really, really like to see Amirm test this:

Yamaha A-S701SL Natural Sound Integrated Stereo Amplifier (Silver) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MXUCMXS/

Yes, definitely! That speaker is pretty much the recommended "golden standard" on official Harbeth user forum, I'm really curious about how good is it!

 

[restorer-john]

Amir, are you going to investigate your BTL and low impedance measurements? Those BTL numbers can't be right unless the amplifier is faulty or the "protection"/limiting circuitry is out of control.

I would question the recommended rating when none of its power ratings come remotely close to spec.

 

[restorer-john]

For the same $799, I would really, really like to see Amirm test this:

Yamaha A-S701SL Natural Sound Integrated Stereo Amplifier (Silver) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MXUCMXS/

Basically, the A-S701 is a 1991 AX-570 with a single board D/A converter jammed in (on top of the main filter caps...), electronic input switching and a cosmetic makeover.



1991 AX-570:

Same ToP-Art sub chassis (a piece of plastic), symmetrical design, plenty of sliver buss links, same topology etc.

The AX-570 was a top seller nearly 30 years ago and my bet is, it will test just as well (or better) than the AS-701.

 

[amirm]

Yes, going to dinner but when I get back I will re-test. One downside of taking pictures in new setting is that the unit is no longer on the bench so I can't just turn around and run a new test.

 

[restorer-john]

One downside of taking pictures in new setting is that the unit is no longer on the bench so I can't just turn around and run a new test.

Did you see the lazy-susan arrangement PS uses? Remember the old CRT ball bearing roller turners incorporated in every hotel suite TV cabinet like these:

https://www.aliexpress.com/popular/lazy-susan-bearing.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/328...expid=7880b661-1759-4141-a1c6-2e43c35693d4-11

I picked up a really solid timber topped ball bearing lasy susan at a thrift store- it will support anything I put on it- it's great for working on big receivers standing up- you can get to top and bottom really easily.

 

[filter_listener]

Yes, going to dinner but when I get back I will re-test. One downside of taking pictures in new setting is that the unit is no longer on the bench so I can't just turn around and run a new test.

I would love to see the harmonic distortion product ratio if you have the time. It would be extra awesome if you could provide the the raw FFT (to check for Power Supply related products) AND the AP Distortion Product Ratio: https://www.ap.com/blog/thd-and-thdn-similar-but-not-the-same/

I think this is something you should consider including for all devices going forward. In devices that have distortion products on the edge of audibility, knowing if they are low or high order distortions could make a big difference.

 

[audimus]

So, the conclusion is that this is one Schiit that didn’t hit the fan?

 

[Dana reed]

So, the conclusion is that this is one Schiit that didn’t hit the fan?

It might need a fan, if you run it into 4 Ohms mono

 

[TungstenC]

Why is there a broadening around the 1kHz test tone?

 

[audimus]

I don’t really have a clue who the target audience for Schiit is. Look at the overview description of their product

Aegir is our first Continuity speaker amplifier, extending a technology we introduced with the Lyr 3 headphone amp. Technically, Continuity is a way to eliminate transconductance droop outside of the Class A bias region, and extend the benefits of Class A biasing. It also solves the NPN and PNP device mismatch problem, since it uses both NPN and PNP devices on both rails. It’s still a very hot-running amp, though, with over 10W of Class A standing bias.

eh What?

Clearly this is from people who like tech porn and with no non-techy product manager or marketeer in the company (anyone who puts “it’s still a very hot-running amp...” in the description has to be fired immediately for incompetence). This is what happens when techy startup founders don’t know anything about marketing a product or don’t know they don’t know anything about marketing.

Seems like this kind of tech porn should appeal to people who frequent forums like this that like tech porn but this nonsensical tech porn is like somebody that caters to aftermarket “tricking out” cars than build cars with solid technology.

I think people who think these guys are marketing geniuses that foist crappy products with great marketing are missing that these guys are marketing idiots that just happened to have found a low cost, low information target market equivalent of the type that outfit their 4x4s with 16 speakers and distortion-is-a-feature amps to play loud music in the parking lot. And it makes them feel like they have discovered audio Nirvana with these things.

It does seem to work since you can even become a President with that approach.

 

[JohnBooty]

Since high-efficiency speakers were mentioned in this discussion... yup, such speakers are far from the norm, but here are a couple of DIY kits that offer:

1. Strong bass output
2. Reasonable size (6" W x 15" H x 9" D)
3. Fairly high efficiency (91db)

https://www.diysoundgroup.com/s2000-mtm-kit.html (approx $250/pair)

https://www.diysoundgroup.com/overnight-sensations-mtm.html (approx $200/pair)

Both of these speakers can rattle a medium sized room when paired with a 50w/channel amp. Their bass output isn't the deepest but their midbass is clean and powerful. And let's face it, when it comes to rock/hiphop/etc music, that 50-100w range is where most of the bass is.

Nor do I buy into "Class A" having any benefit. If it had, it would show up in measurements. It does not.

I am an objectivist.

However, while I certainly don't buy into unmeasurable magic, I'm not convinced that distortion and frequency response tests (while essential) really tell the whole story. For example, planar and ribbon drivers have a totally different sound than standard domes & cones. Yet that certainly is not something that shows up in simple measurements like frequency response and distortion. I am certain it can be measured somehow; I just don't know how. My subjective experience is also that 90dB+ sensitive speakers do have something of a unique sound relative to their inefficient cousins.

Certainly Class A must have benefits as well, no? Otherwise, why would we waste our time at all with Class AB amps? Why not just Class B amps, then?

(This isn't a rhetorical question. I'm hoping for enlightenment....)

 

[amirm]

Ah, I had run 8 ohm also. Here are the results:

We are quite far from 80 watts. We are getting double the power.

 

[JohnBooty]

Seems like this kind of tech porn should appeal to people who frequent forums

For decades now, it seems to be accepted fact that Class A amplification sounds better. Of course, it's horribly inefficient, unlike Class B amplification.

That's why, for many decades, Class AB amplification was the dominant technology. The first N watts are Class A (because it sounds better) and the rest are Class B (because it doesn't heat your entire house).

In a traditional Class AB amp, only the first watt or two (IIRC) are Class A. What Schiit is claiming here is that the technology in their Aegir extends the Class A biasing up to 10W or so. That is not "tech porn", or mumbo jumbo. That is some pretty basic "amplification 101" talk.

anyone who puts “it’s still a very hot-running amp...” in the description has to be fired immediately for incompetence

Wow. Here on ASR -- a community dedicated to truth and honesty in audio -- we hate Schiit so much that we're now blasting them for.... truth and honestly? Laughable. We're better than that. Imagine the hatred if they weren't up-front about how hot the dang thing runs. There are plenty of reasons to criticize Schiit and others; let's not criticize them for transparency.

This amp may be a lousy product, or it may be something you'd enjoy, but whatever the case we should not be ripping a company for honesty.

(FWIW, I don't have a horse in this race. I don't own an Aegir and have no plans to buy this or any other amp in the near or even medium future...)

 

[amirm]

Certainly Class A must have benefits as well, no? Otherwise, why would we waste our time at all with Class AB amps? Why not just Class B amps, then?

Class B has clear discontinuity as one transistor gets biased with the other one not working. That gap is compensated in class AB by pre-biasing the two transistors so that they can hand off to each other quickly. That compensation is simple and hence the reason there is no such thing as class B audio in the market.

Class A's advantage is simplicity in circuit design. When transistors were expensive and so was labor, having an amplifier with half the parts was an advantage. That has not been the case for decades. The efficiency advantage of class AB has obsoleted class A in audio for years.