• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Review and Measurements of Sabaj Da3 Dac compared to Dragonfly Black

Warbles

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2019
Messages
35
Likes
4
Thank-you so very much for prompt reply. Never fails to move me when such help is at hand for the largely tech-illiterate!
Unfortunately that option - TRRS 2.5mm - does not appear in the array of about ten or twelve selections that appear when one tries to add to cart
 

Warbles

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2019
Messages
35
Likes
4
The 2.5mm TRRS plug one will work correctly with the DA3 for balanced output.

I use a few similar plugged cables with my IEMs and Headphones with the DA3.
Very sorry to bother you again. Does TRN/TRRS designate a brand or a plug type? The seller ended up sending me a TRN one, which did not work. No sound transmitted at all. But I notice that the illustrations he's now sending me of the TRRS one,. appear to have the very same three blue 'contact rings' on the plug as the TRN one does? Can you explain any of this for me? Would he so much appreciated!
 

maxxevv

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 12, 2018
Messages
1,872
Likes
1,964
The TRRS 2.5mm refers to "2.5mm balanced" that the DA3 supports. Yes, it will have 3 Black/Blue rings on the headphone jack.
You need to select the "Bal" output on the DA3 menu for it to work.
 

Warbles

Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2019
Messages
35
Likes
4
Now that is what I cannot seem to do! However I go about tapping the button, the readout continues to say UNBAL
 

maxxevv

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 12, 2018
Messages
1,872
Likes
1,964
Now that is what I cannot seem to do! However I go about tapping the button, the readout continues to say UNBAL
Go read your manual.

You are supposed to use the + /- buttons to select. Its not a cyclical scroll menu.
 

Cirrus Incus

Member
Joined
May 24, 2020
Messages
18
Likes
3
SINAD for the DA3 looks pretty poor after seeing all these more recent reviews. Do people still consider it a good option?
 

maxxevv

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 12, 2018
Messages
1,872
Likes
1,964
SINAD for the DA3 looks pretty poor after seeing all these more recent reviews. Do people still consider it a good option?
Depends on your needs I suppose ?

Its still the only USB powered option out there that does not have/need a battery and has selectable balanced / single-ended outputs.

If you need that flexibility, I'm not sure I have seen an alternative at the same price point.

But in terms of absolute performance, yes, there have been better performers since. And in fact, a few of the recently reviewed dongle type DACs actually churns out as much power from their single-ended output as the Da3's balanced. So, things have changed a fair bit since this was originally reviewed.
 

stoyania

Member
Joined
May 17, 2021
Messages
14
Likes
2
Depends on your needs I suppose ?

Its still the only USB powered option out there that does not have/need a battery and has selectable balanced / single-ended outputs.

If you need that flexibility, I'm not sure I have seen an alternative at the same price point.

But in terms of absolute performance, yes, there have been better performers since. And in fact, a few of the recently reviewed dongle type DACs actually churns out as much power from their single-ended output as the Da3's balanced. So, things have changed a fair bit since this was originally reviewed.
hello...another year has passed and i am thinking to upgrade...what would be your recommendation in the same price range?
 

ad8e

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2022
Messages
7
Likes
1
This image of the Sabaj Da3's frequency response is from its amazon page:

71nLmePKuRL._AC_SL1200_.jpg


Note how it is flat to 48000 Hz.

A 20 Hz sine would alias to a 44120 Hz sine. The aliased energy at 44120 Hz would be (44120/20)^2 = 4866436 times as much. That's a 67 dB boost in energy. Even if it is inaudible, might this cause hearing damage?

Also, it would explain why the Sabaj Da3 takes so much power, if it is reproducing so much ultrasonic content.
 

dc655321

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
Messages
1,597
Likes
2,235
This image of the Sabaj Da3's frequency response is from its amazon page:

View attachment 215210

Note how it is flat to 48000 Hz.

A 20 Hz sine would alias to a 44120 Hz sine. The aliased energy at 44120 Hz would be (44120/20)^2 = 4866436 times as much. That's a 67 dB boost in energy. Even if it is inaudible, might this cause hearing damage?

Also, it would explain why the Sabaj Da3 takes so much power, if it is reproducing so much ultrasonic content.

Not flat - 2 dB down at 48kHz.
Also not clear what sampling rate is shown. Presumably this is 96kHz with a slow reconstruction filter in place.

Not sure where your aliasing frequency estimation comes from, nor where you think a 70dB boost come from. Seems nonsensical and born of misunderstanding. That also throws you last statement out the window too…
 

ad8e

Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2022
Messages
7
Likes
1
Not flat - 2 dB down at 48kHz.
Also not clear what sampling rate is shown. Presumably this is 96kHz with a slow reconstruction filter in place.

Not sure where your aliasing frequency estimation comes from, nor where you think a 70dB boost come from. Seems nonsensical and born of misunderstanding. That also throws you last statement out the window too…
Ok, 2 dB if we are being pedantic.

I do not know the sampling rate either. But the amplitude graph matches Amir's review, which says "down just 0.2 dB at 20 kHz". Amir's first picture shows "44.1 kHz", which would suggest the amazon graph is also 44.1 kHz, if Amir kept this sampling rate throughout (which is not guaranteed). Even if it is 96 kHz, I think it is dangerous to pass huge ultrasonic energy to an unaware customer, if such ultrasonic energy does cause hearing damage at these levels (which I am not sure of).

I showed the energy calculation in the previous post, log(4866436) -> 67 dB as an energy ratio. I also added demonstrations in the previous thread at https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...hinkpad-solved-thanks-ntk.35294/#post-1231067. If this is still confusing to you, you can skip the calculations by specifying the representable frequencies of a 44100 Hz sample rate as 1000 Hz - 45100 Hz. A 44120 Hz sine tone can be output with only a tiny dB loss, as seen from the amplitude response graph. Such a tone at max clip would have tremendous energy. I view this type of energy calculation as a basic DSP principle, so if it is "nonsensical and born of misunderstanding", then one of us has a very big problem...
 
Last edited:

Killingbeans

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 23, 2018
Messages
4,089
Likes
7,552
Location
Bjerringbro, Denmark.
A 20 Hz sine would alias to a 44120 Hz sine. The aliased energy at 44120 Hz would be (44120/20)^2 = 4866436 times as much. That's a 67 dB boost in energy.

The sinc envelope attenuates the images. It actually attenuates more the further away you get from the Nyquist frequency, meaning that 20Hz is the least of your problems:
 

dc655321

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 4, 2018
Messages
1,597
Likes
2,235
The sinc envelope attenuates the images. It actually attenuates more the further away you get from the Nyquist frequency, meaning that 20Hz is the least of your problems:

Yes, if no reconstruction/anti-imaging filter is present, the ZOH behavior of the DAC will dictate a sinc transfer function.
So, the proposed 20 Hz signal would image at n*44100Hz +/- 20Hz, under the sinc envelope, in all Nyquist Zones.

But a ratio of frequencies is neither an energy calculation nor "a basic DSP principle"... ;)
 

merak2000

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
Messages
5
Likes
0
Hi there. Welcome to the forum and thanks for the kind words. :)


I don't think so. Just read the manual and there is no such facility. You can always turn down the volume to line level (about 50%) and with it, reduce its power stage distortion.


Should work but you may have to make your own cable per answer from max.
Hi amirm

Which could be the consequences of hooking an active speaker set (namely, the Lonpoo LP42X) straight into the DA3 unbalanced output, be it at 50% or at full volume?
Is there the risk of damaging either component? how would the sound quality be affected?

Thanks in advance for your answer, and keep up the good work!

Greetz from Germany
merak2000
 

VicSh

Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2019
Messages
6
Likes
0
Location
Ukraine | Героям Слава!
Hi amirm

Which could be the consequences of hooking an active speaker set (namely, the Lonpoo LP42X) straight into the DA3 unbalanced output, be it at 50% or at full volume?
Is there the risk of damaging either component? how would the sound quality be affected?

Thanks in advance for your answer, and keep up the good work!

Greetz from Germany
merak2000
Hi, as you can see, amirm writes that the volume level of about 50% corresponds to the line level of the signal on the unbalanced output. That is, you can try to connect the DA3 to the LONPOO 42X. As for the sound quality, it should be evaluated by listening to this bundle.
Here is a link where these speakers are positively evaluated: https://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/lonpoo_lp42x_e.html
 

merak2000

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
Messages
5
Likes
0
Hi, as you can see, amirm writes that the volume level of about 50% corresponds to the line level of the signal on the unbalanced output. That is, you can try to connect the DA3 to the LONPOO 42X. As for the sound quality, it should be evaluated by listening to this bundle.
Here is a link where these speakers are positively evaluated: https://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/lonpoo_lp42x_e.html

Hi. Thanks for answering and the provided link.

I already read @amirm 's comment you refer to. Nonetheless, I assume that the statement applies when the connected device has an input impedance comparable to amirm's measuring equipment.

I am not sure about the typical input impedance of a powered speaker set and how this compares with amirm's device, hence my question.

Actually I am rather satisfied by the sound I get at both 50% and 100%, but was curious to understand whether I am putting my DA3's output stage (or the Lonpoo's input) at risk by using the DA3 at 100% and keeping the LP42X at low volume level, or if this can introduce some distorsion - even if light, or if it is better to keep the DA3 at 50% and increase the volume on the boxes.

Acoustically, given that most of the hearings originate from compressed audio, it is difficult to get any sensible comparison :)

Best regards
merak2000
 

VicSh

Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2019
Messages
6
Likes
0
Location
Ukraine | Героям Слава!
Hi. Thanks for answering and the provided link.

I already read @amirm 's comment you refer to. Nonetheless, I assume that the statement applies when the connected device has an input impedance comparable to amirm's measuring equipment.

I am not sure about the typical input impedance of a powered speaker set and how this compares with amirm's device, hence my question.

Actually I am rather satisfied by the sound I get at both 50% and 100%, but was curious to understand whether I am putting my DA3's output stage (or the Lonpoo's input) at risk by using the DA3 at 100% and keeping the LP42X at low volume level, or if this can introduce some distorsion - even if light, or if it is better to keep the DA3 at 50% and increase the volume on the boxes.

Acoustically, given that most of the hearings originate from compressed audio, it is difficult to get any sensible comparison :)

Best regards
merak2000
Hi.
You connect the DA3 to the line input of the integrated amplifier in the speakers (AUX and RCA inputs). That is, at 50% volume, the output signal is about line level, which should be consistent with the line input of the amplifier.
(About line level (Wiki): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_level)
At 100% volume, I think the volume of the speakers when connected should be set to minimum to avoid distortion.
I wonder how this bundle plays lossless and hi-res recordings?
 

merak2000

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2021
Messages
5
Likes
0
I wonder how this bundle plays lossless and hi-res recordings?

Really not bad to my ears, when I downloaded some lossless 192KHz/24 bits stuff and played it through foobar2000 feeding the DA3 in exclusive mode I was impressed by the results.

This bundle has no mercy for high compression rates or bad recordings (or both) and I definitely agree with the TNT review, these little speakers punch much above their weight.

When the input is good, it makes me want to turn up the volume... indefinitely. That's a good sign to me.
 

VicSh

Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2019
Messages
6
Likes
0
Location
Ukraine | Героям Слава!
Really not bad to my ears, when I downloaded some lossless 192KHz/24 bits stuff and played it through foobar2000 feeding the DA3 in exclusive mode I was impressed by the results.

This bundle has no mercy for high compression rates or bad recordings (or both) and I definitely agree with the TNT review, these little speakers punch much above their weight.

When the input is good, it makes me want to turn up the volume... indefinitely. That's a good sign to me.
Hi. Yes, foobar2000 in conjunction with XMOS USB DAC Driver. At the same time Sabaj DA3 fits perfectly the drivers from SMSL :). Also, instead of foobar you can use Album Player (Link: http://albumplayer.ru/english.html) This is on Windows PC.
Then I used an Album Player installed on a Raspberry pi4 mod.B, in conjunction with a Sabaj DA3 or Topping E30 with a linear power supply. It plays everything up to DSD512, is network controlled via a browser, has a big list of internet radio stations and can receive a stream from Spotify.
 
Top Bottom