This thread seems to have gone down the tubes.
There are some almost unbelievable claims being made.
Any controlled listening around any of these? Any explanations as to how a preamp improves the sound?
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Review and Measurements of Sabaj D5 DAC & Amp
- Thread starter amirm
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This thread seems to have gone down the tubes.
There are some almost unbelievable claims being made.
Any controlled listening around any of these? Any explanations as to how a preamp improves the sound?
There are two types of digital volume controls. Software based attenuation or digital controlled analogue attenuation. I think the D5 uses the former. So it does depend on the math behind the software. It is not a bit perfect process and compromises have to be made. The analogue attenuation, digital controlled or not, is a totally different process in the analogue domain. Any blind claim about they should be the same only exposes its ignorance on this topic.
Uh huh...
So, the preamp actually improves the sound signal... Got it... Not.
Yikes.
Controlled listening tests people...
same for me
mostresticator
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im getting that flat and bassless response feeding the D5 from a new macbook pro via USB
I lose 60-70% total volume level if i use the phone, tv and tablet as the source to the D5, only thru my desktop PC I get amazing sound quality and volume level via optical and usb connection.
I am not sure if the issue is with the decoding or if the signal feed to the D5 is crap from sources other than my Desktop PC.
My desktop pc uses the latest Z390 motherboard from Asus, it costs $350 and it is connected to a 1200w platinum rated PSU.
Imo it could be a input impedance mismatch. Also the amplification from the mobile/tablet is less.
Also check the master volume is set to high alongwith volume at 40 on Sabaj D5 (on windows especially. Once i found the cause of low volume because of less master volume through the xmos driver setting)
maxxevv
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Most power amps will work well with a 2V input. (There are exceptions of course, but that is almost always noted in the power amp nomenclature / documentation)
Hence, most of the DAC's that can output 2V or more DO NOT need a pre-amp chain before the power amp.
Unless your power amp needs more than 2V to achieve the gain it needs to output, there really is no need to put a pre-amp between most of the DAC's tested here on ASR, including the D5.
It just adds unnecessary noise and distortion to the output chain.
With regards, to fatigue and distortion relationship : Random signal distortion in a sound/music output signal typically leads to fatigue from prolonged listening sessions. NOT the other way round.
Hence, most of the DAC's that can output 2V or more DO NOT need a pre-amp chain before the power amp.
Unless your power amp needs more than 2V to achieve the gain it needs to output, there really is no need to put a pre-amp between most of the DAC's tested here on ASR, including the D5.
It just adds unnecessary noise and distortion to the output chain.
With regards, to fatigue and distortion relationship : Random signal distortion in a sound/music output signal typically leads to fatigue from prolonged listening sessions. NOT the other way round.
Veri
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Added distortion != less fatiguing. Perhaps there is roll-off involved but distortion will not sound 'smoother' but rather more in your face or fatiguing. from my experience at least.
ohtoulouz
Member
If your tablet or phone is Android based, you cannot rely on native Android usb driver to output bit-perfect signal to the DAC. For that, you need a player with its own usb driver, like USB Audio Player Pro (not free) or Hiby music player (free) or Fiio music player (free); and on USB OTG cable, too.
There are many types distortions. Proper amount of harmonic distortion added to files mixed and mastered in the box can often migrate some of the harshness introduced in the pure digital process. Recording is one of my hobbies, and I have a whole rack of signal processors, many of which are there just to add various types of distortions
. I am not saying more distortion equals to better sound, but doing it right is what separates a good sound from a bad one.
[emphasis mine]
In the world of recording it is absolutely your right as an artist to create exactly the sound you want in the source material, and you should be encouraged to do so.
But the terms "right" or "good" really shouldn't be used when talking about distortion in a DAC. The goal of the DAC is to produce the analogue signal in a way that is as transparent as possible -- which means being as true as possible to the artist's original source recordings. You don't want people listening to your recordings on poorly designed / poorly implemented DACs that add significantly higher amounts of distortion than what you intended them to hear.
Recording is one of my hobbies, and I have a whole rack of signal processors, many of which are there just to add various types of distortions
In the world of recording it is absolutely your right as an artist to create exactly the sound you want in the source material, and you should be encouraged to do so.
But the terms "right" or "good" really shouldn't be used when talking about distortion in a DAC. The goal of the DAC is to produce the analogue signal in a way that is as transparent as possible -- which means being as true as possible to the artist's original source recordings. You don't want people listening to your recordings on poorly designed / poorly implemented DACs that add significantly higher amounts of distortion than what you intended them to hear.
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Veri
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I think it's wrong then that, as an example what's mentioned above, one would need to add a pre-amp to the signal path before his music sounds 'good'. Is most music mastered badly then, or does the user like his music more distorted? Maybe he/she just needs to get used to the cleaner sound?There are many types distortions. Proper amount of harmonic distortion added to files mixed and mastered in the box can often migrate some of the harshness introduced in the pure digital process. Recording is one of my hobbies, and I have a whole rack of signal processors, many of which are there just to add various types of distortions
The bass coming out of my KEF speakers is mind blowing with the D5, and its the real deal, no distortion/bloom. But this only when I am feeding the D5 off my desktop PC.
I used the Hiby music player off my phone with the USB OTG cable and the sound quality and volume levels were nothing compared to when feeding the D5 off my desktop PC.
I am really starting to think that my PC's $350 motherboard and $300 1200w platinum power supply acts like a high-end preamp for the D5. I have the volume level of D5 set to max(40) and i control the volume thru windows. Going ove 30% volume from windows sends my KEF speakers off the roof, when i use the tablet or phone to D5 i cant even match that 30% desktop volume even after i max out the tablet/phone volume.
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This is a really complicated topic and is way beyond my knowledge (or my limited English) to elaborate. Here I am not talking about the DAC, but the preamp stage. I do not know the math behind the digital volume control of the D5, but its degradation of the signal quality is easily audible. It even introduces obvious channel inbalance which I can easily detect by turning the volume down and hearing the image of the center shift towards left, which in theory should not happen for a digital volume control. Again, I do not know the detailed implementation and it is not impossible that some asymmetry to be introduced in the circuit before or following the DAC chip. The preamp in the CMA800I is no doubt a very high quality one, which has a SNR of 118 using external line in for those like to look at the numbers. Do you think it is possible that in this case, a meticulously engineered preamp can outperform a budget digital volume control?
I will be getting Vincent Preamp for sources other than my desktop pc, D5 in reality is just a DAC, the headphone and preamp section of D5 is just a bonus to get you by if using a desktop PC with a strong and controlled signal/source that acts like a preamp.
connecting a tablet(usb), tv(optical out) or phone(USB) to D5 is not pretty, i have tried this many times to confirm it using the same speakers and speaker amp. My Anthem MC 225 pumps out 225w per channel and I still get low volume and poor bass when feeding the D5 off my tablet or phone.
Heck, even Hegel's $5k DAC that has a preamp like section like the D5 requires one of their stand alone preamps to be used with it.
connecting a tablet(usb), tv(optical out) or phone(USB) to D5 is not pretty, i have tried this many times to confirm it using the same speakers and speaker amp. My Anthem MC 225 pumps out 225w per channel and I still get low volume and poor bass when feeding the D5 off my tablet or phone.
Heck, even Hegel's $5k DAC that has a preamp like section like the D5 requires one of their stand alone preamps to be used with it.
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ohtoulouz
Member
That's stange. I tested it last week with Hiby on my note 9 and did not notice any problem. BTW, Hiby can lower the output volume with the phone volume level (you can't with FiiO music). Did you check volume was at max level with Hiby? Maybe you can try FiiO music, it is a good player too. I have no other idea that could help you solve the problem.
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