Review and Measurements of Purifi 1ET400A Amplifier

[maxxevv]

US signals (imperial) may not work down under, you need special AUS (metric) signals. Also bear in mind WA AUS signals are different to QLD AUS signals and cannot be compared.

The AUS signals are of reverse polarity and phase as they are in the southern hemisphere!

Lol....

 

[kn0ppers]

Okay, my question for Bruno (repeated):

1. Will the Purifi 1ET400A(s) become available to the DIY market in this exact configuration tested here? Especially regarding the input section.
2. Will Purifi also offer own PSUs?

I appreciate the use of more high quality components on the Purifi compared to Hypex. Nice to see WIMA Caps etc.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

The AUS signals are of reverse polarity and phase as they are in the southern hemisphere!

Lol....

That b/c electromagnetic fields flow through wires anticlockwise in the southern hemisphere.

 

[HammerSandwich]

So directional cables should be hooked up backwards down under?

(Poor Bruno. Someone will need to compile a list of actual questions)

 

[maty]

DIY Purifi 1ET400A x2 + Connector Board and Hypex SMPS1200 in Red Enclosure

Purifi 1ET400A: Size 82x63x35mm

Picture from: https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/bits...eaders-qa-with-lars-risbo-bruno-putzeys-r815/

Presumably PURIFI do not sell the box in addition to the kit, so if we want a similar we have to make some estimates of the measures. The most important, for me, is the thickness of the sides. It is assumed that the DIY case is made of aluminum.

Purifi 1ET400A: 82x63x35mm
https://www.purifi-audio.com/eigentakt/

Measuring directly on the screen and adjusting the proportions, I obtain that the lateral, before bending > 4 mm

The others, who buy whatever they want.

 

[kn0ppers]

Designing the back-panel for an AMP in CAD is really easy. For the people in the EU Modushop offers cases and also machining panels for reasonable prices. I think they would probably also do the CAD work for you, assuming people are interested in the Purifi modules. And Ghentaudio will presumably also adapt their cases to support the Purifi 1ET400A(s).

The cases Hypex offers to me seem like they have a cooperation with Ghentaudio, because the cases, the drilling, it looks exactly identical. Not much to gain for Hypex or Purifi in selling own cases, apart from making DIY more approachable and being able to offer a complete solution from one source. We will have to see, I could see why Purifi might have little interest in tying up capital by stocking cases and selling them to the DIY-Community when they are easily available elsewhere. After all, I think they are a smaller company than hypex and likely want to focus on their main business areas, so probably don't expect too much..

Maybe we could use a certain colour for serious questions to Mr. Putzey? Would make it easier on him and be more time efficient.

 

[maxxevv]

Okay, my question for Bruno (repeated):

1. Will the Purifi 1ET400A(s) become available to the DIY market in this exact configuration tested here? Especially regarding the input section.
2. Will Purifi also offer own PSUs?

I appreciate the use of more high quality components on the Purifi compared to Hypex. Nice to see WIMA Caps etc.

Have the same questions.

Casing is never going to be an issue for me ( I can always CAD and get my vendors to machine one to my design) but the input/output board and the PSU would be needed.

Ideally, if the PSU allows one to swap/connect up different transformers too. ( Toroidal / R-type etc ....)

 

[Rja4000]

DIY Purifi 1ET400A + input buffer Red Box

Purifi 1ET400A: Size 82x63x35mm

Picture from: https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/bits...eaders-qa-with-lars-risbo-bruno-putzeys-r815/

View attachment 29050

View attachment 29051

Presumably PURIFI do not sell the box in addition to the kit, so if we want a similar we have to make some estimates of the measures. The most important, for me, is the thickness of the sides. It is assumed that the DIY case is made of aluminum.

Purifi 1ET400A: 82x63x35mm
https://www.purifi-audio.com/eigentakt/

Measuring directly on the screen and adjusting the proportions, I obtain that the lateral, before bending > 4 mm

The others, who buy whatever they want.

The interview you linked to is pretty interesting !

 

[orangejello]

The interview you linked to is pretty interesting !

Awesome interview. One comment that Bruno made that really jumped out at me had to do with his feedback control loop. He seems to acknowledged that current measurements may not tell you how an amp is going to sound because we may not be aware of all of the various types of distortion. So for those of you that think that good measuring amps all sound the same, you might want to think about this some more... He talks about IMD at high frequencies as an example. He then uses the term “magic” with respect to his feedback control loop. What he is saying is that the feedback is taking care of both known and measurable distortions and unknown ones. Hence the “magic” of the feedback circuit. He also stresses that they do extensive subjective testing because measurements are not the entire story.

I also liked his comments about “joy” in the listening experience versus “accuracy” as far as measurements are concerned - and the often repeated notion that you can’t seem to have both. He asserts that these are not exclusive. The conundrum arises because what looks like accuracy may often contain distortion of a unknown different kind - the type that he eliminates with his feedback loop. This is why you may not get much joy out of an “accurate” piece of equipment - it is accurate only in so far as we deem it so by what we can measure, and measurements may not be enough.

In summary this is one of the most lucid discussions of audio that I have read. The sense of mastery, humility, and passion is palpable to me in my reading of it.

Finally it is helping me to come to terms with the fact that I am auditioning two excellently measuring amplifiers and have a completely different subjective experience of them. I think I now know why one is going to be returned tomorrow.

 

[allhifi]

Love to, but that is scoffed at here...

Too funny ! (RE: " ...Sharing one's personal experience on SQ is "scoffed" at here" !

Priceless !

It's like saying: " ...Wow, what a great looking car, how does it drive ?" (Uhh, sorry, we're not allowed to say/scoffed at.)

Or ones assessment of a fine meal: " ..How's it taste ? "
"Why, what a dumb question, look at the ingredients dum-dum" !

You guys are the Best !

pj

 

[amirm]

Okay, my question for Bruno (repeated):

1. Will the Purifi 1ET400A(s) become available to the DIY market in this exact configuration tested here? Especially regarding the input section.

This is answered as YES in the Q/A:

This is good news as the I/O board requires no wiring which should eliminate any chance of shoddy wiring work from amature builds.

 

[Xulonn]

Too funny ! (RE: " ...Sharing one's personal experience on SQ is "scoffed" at here" !

Priceless !

It's like saying: " ...Wow, what a great looking car, how does it drive ?" (Uhh, sorry, we're not allowed to say/scoffed at.)

Or ones assessment of a fine meal: " ..How's it taste ? "
"Why, what a dumb question, look at the ingredients dum-dum" !

You guys are the Best !

pj

We seem to occasionally attract masters of the non-sequitur here...!

 

[amirm]

Too funny ! (RE: " ...Sharing one's personal experience on SQ is "scoffed" at here" !

Priceless !

We love personal experiences. It is just that we want that to relate only to what the ear received, not what the brain manufactured after the fact (i.e. tests need to have controls). Without this, subjective experiences are so wrong and so routinely so, that it is not worth sharing it with us. We know people can perceive the impossible. So let's not keep telling us that you "heard" that when you can't show that is what was actually heard.

In this forum, we rather stick to what we can prove, not imagine to be so.

 

[amirm]

2. Will Purifi also offer own PSUs?

Looks like this is being worked on:

 

[kn0ppers]

I just noticed that when I read the Q&A again. Actually I'd recommend anyone interested to read it completely (I obviously didn't do that last time or somehow forgot about the SMPS). Bruno and Lars kept their answers short, I think the more one tries to summarise it the more context is lost.

Regarding the quote: I can see why companies would be grumbling about DIYers. They might feel like they lose potential customers when the same technology can be bought directly, but I think they are different target audiences. By no means do I say there is no intersection, but if High-End audio brands honestly think the majority of people DIY-ing are potential customers of their really high-end products, I think they are being a bit naive or overly optimistic. Most of the DIY-Community I suppose thinks like this: "I want the best performing solution I can get for x amount, I am ready to invest time but not necessarily more cash. If I have to DIY I will do so, also because this way I can hide the overall cost of my projects from other family members."

There definitely are lots of valid arguments for selling to the DIY market and also for not doing so. I think Hypex found quite a reasonable balance, offering many products for DIY but keeping some exclusive to their partners.

 

[Bjorn]

Regarding the quote: I can see why companies would be grumbling about DIYers. They might feel like they lose potential customers when the same technology can be bought directly, but I think they are different target audiences. By no means do I say there is no intersection, but if High-End audio brands honestly think the majority of people DIY-ing are potential customers of their really high-end products, I think they are being a bit naive or overly optimistic.

The question I'm asking is how it will effect the sense of the customer of his final product when they know the basic components can be bought separately by anyone. Will the feeling of having something of high quality and something special be gone?

 

[kn0ppers]

90% would probably never know, if the manufacturers do their job right. Slap "no user serviceable parts inside", "Warranty void if removed" etc. stickers everywhere and don't allow testers who get samples to show the inside, have them sign a non disclosure agreement.

And apart from that, they can have custom input sections with extra input options, custom power supplies, nicer cases, additional features, customer support and certainly a higher resell value. A good product stays a good product in my opinion, regardless if parts of it are available individually. And let's be honest, for someone expecting a complete, working product without any hassle the DIY route is often times not satisfactory or even an option.

Edit: Obviously a "good" product stays a "good" product. That "good" was less about the measureable performance, but more about the price/performance ratio. If that was perceived as good compared to the non-DIY competition before, it will still be even if parts are available for DIY. This way my statement should make more sense.

 

[maxxevv]

Then its really up to the "integrators" to add value to their systems.

Its completely analogous to DIY computer assembly. You can buy all the top quality sub-components and assemble a PC to the same hardware specs as say Dell / HP / Lenovo and install the basic OS yourself.

So how do these integrators differentiate their products ?

 

[March Audio]

Then its really up to the "integrators" to add value to their systems.

Its completely analogous to DIY computer assembly. You can buy all the top quality sub-components and assemble a PC to the same hardware specs as say Dell / HP / Lenovo and install the basic OS yourself.

So how do these integrators differentiate their products ?

Its an interesting problem. Unless the OEM offering is differentiated from the DIY offering (technically or by pricing or both) there is no doubt that it does damage the OEM manufacturers ability to sell product to a degree. BTW I dont have a problem with DIY, thoroughly encourage it in fact.

Having said this the DIY market is separate from the OEM market. The amount of people that have the ability and the desire to build their own amps is actually quite small in the scheme of things. Most people want to buy a fully built, tested and warranted product in a nice case. As has already been said, the DIYers are most likely not going to buy an off the shelf product which they will possibly view as not as good VFM as their own DIY efforts.

 

[kn0ppers]

Then its really up to the "integrators" to add value to their systems.

Maybe they'll just add weight. No joke, I think it has been proven somewhere that especially male customers associate higher weight with better equipment. I could honestly see that integrators may deem these modules too compact and light to appeal to some. They might proceed by adding huge transformers and linear power supplies with huge capacitors and linear voltage regulators so there is weight and heat, because an amp that is light and stays cool can't be state of the art obviously...