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Review and Measurements of PS Audio S300 PWR Amp

hevymac

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Any system can be described as an input times some sort of transfer function (non linearity). Audio systems except for processors are to reproduce the input signal which is the recording. Hence any system that has nonlinearities under certain threshold will sound absolutely the same(if volume matched).

So then that explains why all the class d amps I've heard sound similar to each other. But they all sound similar. While the ab amps sound similar to each other too. Is that the designers deliberately making the different groups sound's for product differentiation then.

It seems to me that the class a amps have the the designers, in recent years, designing them to sound more like the ab amps, in other words, less swarm and syrupy.
 

audimus

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Hence any system that has nonlinearities under certain threshold will sound absolutely the same(if volume matched).

Absolutely true if listening to the same single or multi-tones used in the measurement to measure non-linearities.

Also true IF a case can be made that the test tones used are statistically and scientifically sufficient (in time and frequency domains) samples of audio that the equipment is used to listen to, to ensure that the measured non-linearities will not be any higher than what is measured with those test samples.
 
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amirm

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I added this to my previous post
"EDIT, I'll add that when I'm talking about "The class D amps sound similar, all of them. Esoteric, NAD, Marantz, PSAudio, MolaMola, to name the ones that stand out. " I'm talking about the final product, the boxed solution that a customer buys, not the little chip (be it D A or AB) "
Exactly what we are talking about.
 

hevymac

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Exactly what we are talking about.

So again, my unanswered question. Why do the designers who admittedly add colorations, choose to make their class d amps sound very similar and have a so called "class d sound" ? Where the same company will make it's ab or a amp sound a different way. Is it just product differentiation?
 

JohnYang1997

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So again, my unanswered question. Why do the designers who admittedly add colorations, choose to make their class d amps sound very similar and have a so called "class d sound" ? Where the same company will make it's ab or a amp sound a different way. Is it just product differentiation?
Hmmm. Let me be straightforward.
Audio electronics is old technology. Everything has been documented and researched decades ago. There is nothing new now. All the techniques are well discussed in the past.
So. All those are audiophoolery and marketing BS.
There are two outcomes. First, the equipment distorts so much that it's audible. Second, they all sound the same and all differences come from sighted listening test and bias.
 
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hevymac

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Hmmm. Let me be straightforward.
Audio electronics is old technology. Everything has been documented and researched decades ago. There is nothing new now. All the techniques are well discussed in the past.
So. All those are audiophoolery and marketing BS.
There are two outcomes. First, the equipment distorts so much that it's audible. Second, they all sound the same and all differences come from sighted listening test and bias.
So it's product differentiation then?
 
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amirm

amirm

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So again, my unanswered question. Why do the designers who admittedly add colorations, choose to make their class d amps sound very similar and have a so called "class d sound" ? Where the same company will make it's ab or a amp sound a different way. Is it just product differentiation?
They don't make them sound different. They tell you that they have made them sound different so they stand out in a sea of similar products.

Some believe this falsehood because they too perform improper listening tests.
 

JohnYang1997

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So it's product differentiation then?
It should comes down to objective superiority in measurements and functionality as well as durability and customer services. This is just for the competition not for actual audible improvements.

Issue is that most products do not perform as well as the current art. Companies do not design products using the most advanced techniques.

That's why we have this forum my friend. We look for good enough performance for cheap price. Or maybe for people who have budget can purchase SOTA products and be happy with it forever.
 

hevymac

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Okay, maybe you don't know what product differentiation means.

MacDonald's could give you a bigger coffee or ice cream for the same price as the little one. But they do not, to get more sales from people willing to pay more for what they, the customer, believe will be better. Even if it costs the same to produce. Same thing for some of those really crappy flavor that no one orders at Baskin Robbins. The differences between similar items induce more purchases from the wide array of people all trying to be different.
 

JohnYang1997

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Okay, maybe you don't know what product differentiation means.

MacDonald's could give you a bigger coffee or ice cream for the same price as the little one. But they do not, to get more sales from people willing to pay more for what they, the customer, believe will be better. Even if it costs the same to produce. Same thing for some of those really crappy flavor that no one orders at Baskin Robbins. The differences between similar items induce more purchases from the wide array of people all trying to be different.
It is surely product differentiation. The look, the other design elements, functionality, usability, size. They all can contribute to the product.
However we fight against the act that deceiving people by telling false claims. Which is what Amir was talking about. Instead of or in combination of making the product more pretty and easier to use, companies often make bogus claims in order to sell products. That's where the issue lies.
 

hevymac

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Okay, maybe you don't know what product differentiation means.

MacDonald's could give you a bigger coffee or ice cream for the same price as the little one. But they do not, to get more sales from people willing to pay more for what they, the customer, believe will be better. Even if it costs the same to produce. Same thing for some of those really crappy flavor that no one orders at Baskin Robbins. The differences between similar items induce more purchases from the wide array of people all trying to be different.

I am referring to the marketing and business practice. Not what you believe, or want me to believe. You guys are just as bad as the ps audio forum people. No one answers questions, they just assume that you don't want to know what you asked and that you are just trying to convince them of something. Like talking to all those Christians I hated growing up.;)
 

hevymac

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It is surely product differentiation. The look, the other design elements, functionality, usability, size. They all can contribute to the product.
However we fight against the act that deceiving people by telling false claims. Which is what Amir was talking about. Instead of or in combination of making the product more pretty and easier to use, companies often make bogus claims in order to sell products. That's where the issue lies.
Hehe, I just saw your reply. After my previous post.

But no one ever gives a straight answer, they not only assume the worst but are just plain rude . Why the fuc did it take me THIS long to get a non loaded answer? Why do I have to jump through hoops and get the frat boi hazing? Men ahhhh men
 

pkane

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Why do the designers who admittedly add colorations, choose to make their class d amps sound very similar and have a so called "class d sound" ?

"Class D sound" is not a thing except in the minds of some audiophiles. Your question should be why do they think there's Class D sound?
 
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amirm

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Okay, maybe you don't know what product differentiation means.

MacDonald's could give you a bigger coffee or ice cream for the same price as the little one. But they do not, to get more sales from people willing to pay more for what they, the customer, believe will be better. Even if it costs the same to produce. Same thing for some of those really crappy flavor that no one orders at Baskin Robbins. The differences between similar items induce more purchases from the wide array of people all trying to be different.
Don't confuse audio with other fields. I can fill a box with rocks, tell you to hook it up to your system and it will sound better. You do that and you find that it does even though that box does nothing. Indeed, such boxes are built and cost thousands of dollars!

Stay here if you want to learn. We know where you are coming from. You need to learn where we are coming from. If you want to put your fingers in your ears and be rude, then this is place is not for you.
 

RayDunzl

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They don't make them sound different. They tell you that they have made them sound different so they stand out in a sea of similar products.

Somehow I missed this whole thread until now.

In the first post "blah blah blah freedom to voice the amplifier as he sees fit" (advertising copy/pseudo interview I suppose)

Then I see

1573975438640.png


... which looks about as voiceless as any other competent amplifier.

So...
 

maty

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PS Audio uses own buffer.

Without them the class D modules are very clean without audible harmonics. With them -> dominant H3 !!!!!

I have been waiting for the answer from technical department for more than a year and a half.

Re: Are we on the verge of a SS revolution??? -> PS Audio Stellar M700 monoblock power amplifier
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156250.msg1673278#msg1673278

-> https://www.stereophile.com/content/ps-audio-stellar-m700-monoblock-power-amplifier-measurements

218PSM700fig09.jpg


Dominant H3 and... at -80 dB.
 

Katji

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LOL I enjoyed that one.
Are you still waiting? / I think not.
 

Angsty

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Freeway

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Although this amp is ok, the 1200AS based Apollon has better specs, more power, better construction and is cheaper. Why would anyone choose the PS Audio??
Because it matches other PS Audio gear they have, perhaps they like the brand and like the 'info' they put out there, perhaps they like the looks ?
Because they live in USA & value local support?

Plus PS gave me full retail price of my Emotiva Bas-X as a trade-in. No receipt required. Sent out unit before I sent mine in.
Was a bit of like buying a pig in a poke (hadn't been out long 2017), but got to compare to the Emotiva while still here.
Nice to see the positive review mostly so I won't develop a negative listening bias.
 
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