Review and Measurements of PS Audio PerfectWave DirectStream DAC

[tytus_s]

Who told you there wasn't a DAC in the dongle? It has actually been tested here.

oh, well, seems you're right

 

[BDWoody]

oh, well, seems you're right

Seems crazy a $9 device could consistently embarrass some heavy hitters like it does.

Shows it isn't an impossible task to make a cheap, transparent DAC.

 

[simbloke]

Ok OT but when I plug in the dongle that came with my phone it tells me that this is the low quality analogue version and that I really should be using the digital version. Well thanks Huawei, 800 quid wasn't enough for you to include a decent dongle in the box.

 

[VintageFlanker]

There is no DAC in Apple's dongle. It's just wired so that iPhone recognizes it as an audio device and sends audio signal from the internal DAC.
It means that you have to buy an iPhone for this to work.

oh, well, seems you're right

Yep, he is. You need to think a little bit more before posting. Whatever... Become to ASR.

 

[MediumRare]

Sure.

They are both in .wav format so dropbox can play them in place. I can hear both on my Topping DX3 Pro at max volume using my headphones:


PS Audio DS DAC: https://www.dropbox.com/s/2w45f5tb370d1hz/PS Audio DS DAC -120 dB Toslink XLR_09_27_2019_11_51_06.wav?dl=0

Matrix Sabre-X MQA Pro: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vyckudyrshpl5ie/Matrix Sabre-X MQA Pro DAC -120 dB Toslink XLR.wav?dl=0

@amirm I listened to these and they are easily distinguishable to me. Can you explain the interpretation of this difference?

 

[MediumRare]

Just a visual comparison, plotted to scale:
View attachment 34614

@amirm is this an appropriate addition to your standard dashboard? It seems to clearly show audible differences to a signal between a reference (any reference) and a test subject. I’d suggest including some notation of what delta is considered scientifically audible. What do you think?

 

[amirm]

There is no DAC in Apple's dongle. It's just wired so that iPhone recognizes it as an audio device and sends audio signal from the internal DAC.
It means that you have to buy an iPhone for this to work.

Not the one I tested. My measurements were all on Windows and it most certainly has a DAC in it.

 

[amirm]

@amirm I listened to these and they are easily distinguishable to me. Can you explain the interpretation of this difference?

Sure. The one in Matrix is just the pure tone with a bit of noise. The PS Audio has a bunch of other tones and higher noise floor which makes it audibly worse. See the spectrums I posted a few posts back.

 

[amirm]

Ok OT but when I plug in the dongle that came with my phone it tells me that this is the low quality analogue version and that I really should be using the digital version. Well thanks Huawei, 800 quid wasn't enough for you to include a decent dongle in the box.

There are some that are that way. There are no standards here so some confusion is created because of that.

 

[majingotan]

There is no DAC in Apple's dongle. It's just wired so that iPhone recognizes it as an audio device and sends audio signal from the internal DAC.
It means that you have to buy an iPhone for this to work.

I think you confuse it with mFi compatibility. There’s clearly a DAC in that dongle per x-ray and teardown pics

 

[pozz]

Just copying these in in case people haven't seen them already.

PS DirectStream Technical Talk
PS DirectStream DAC World Premiere (actually the first part of the above)
Ted Explains DSD
Why Jitter Matters
Jitter's Audible Effects
Jitter and Clocks
Paul Mcgowan on the DirectStream DAC
DirectStream Kit Installation (Upgrade from PerfectWave) (for a detailed peek at the insides)

 

[AudioSceptic]

oh, well, seems you're right

To be clear, there are 2 versions of the Apple headphone adapter ("dongle"). There's the original with Lightning connector, which will only work with Apple devices and was introduced along with the iPhone 7, which has no headphone socket, and the USB-C version, which I assume is meant for anything that can output audio over USB-C (or other USB with USB-C adapter). They both measure very well but I haven't seen them measured by the same person with the same gear. Amir measured the USB-C version here at ASR; Archimago measured the Lightning version here <https://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/01/measurements-apples-lightning-to-35mm.html> and Ken Rockwell did the same here <https://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/lightning-adapter-audio-quality.htm> .

 

[AudioSceptic]

Seems crazy a $9 device could consistently embarrass some heavy hitters like it does.

Shows it isn't an impossible task to make a cheap, transparent DAC.

I think this is so good because the iPhone's audio has always been good. In essence they have taken the DAC-amp out of the phone and put it in the adapter (or have they duplicated it because the phone still needs an internal DAC-amp for the speaker(s)?). The real surprise is that it's only $9/£9 and they could have charged 2-3 times as much.

 

[pkane]

Just copying these in in case people haven't seen them already.
Jitter's Audible Effects

"Toes tapping is a sign of lower jitter". Love it! I wonder how that's measured, in number of taps per second?

 

[GrimSurfer]

The blind people I know tend to resent the idea that they have any particular compensating superpowers (I know that’s not exactly what you said, but bear with me). It is more a case of paying more attention to the other senses out of necessity. They don’t have better hearing. They listen better.

Just seen... Interesting article about one way in which people's adaptive response to being blind is being harnessed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-l...en-are-checking-for-breast-cancer-in-colombia

 

[Sean_S]

Read this on PS Audio Forum:

View attachment 34291

I am so surprised. A $6,000 DAC and they could not afford to put in the Jensen transformers? Are they kidding?

Don't be, you have to remember they need 4000% margins.....

 

[Human Bass]

Sorry for stalling. Can't help but have some fun when I can.
My original response to Adam via email discussed a little what we are after.
As Ted has mentioned a number of times, he could tweak the filters to lower the noise in the audio along with a more aggressive filter for the ultrasonics, but it simply doesn't sound as good.
This again goes back to my original email. Could Ted design a DAC that measures better? Absolutely. But what's the point if it sounds worse?

I imagine a lot have already read his post on our forums, but this is his perspective.

"I can lower the noise in the audio band and more and more aggressively filter the resultant ultrasonic noise: but everyone that has listened to that likes the sound less (tho I certainty expect that some would like the filtered top better.) If someone doesn’t like the DS’s sound then the DS isn’t for them, no problem, there are a lot of fine DACs out there (and TTs, etc.)
I could skip the transformer, but then the DS would integrate well into fewer systems and have more analog noise. Sure there are a lot of better transformers out there, but they cost too much for a product at this price point. I’m reasonably happy with the performance of the transformers we use. When I started the project I thought that transformers were crazy for this application and did a lot of work that avoided them, but the very first time I simply passively filtered a DSD stream with resistors, caps and a transformer I knew I was on the right track and I had to learn and changed my mind about transformers.
I’m not going to waste my time reading and rebutting the other stuff at his site, I’ve been there before and see how he treats people and how he learns. In any real conversation each party must expect to possibly change their mind. I know that I’m not going to change my mind based on anything amirm says and I know that he’s not going to change his mind based on anything I say. There’s no end in sight in such a circumstance and I don’t need to waste my time making him happy.
I wrote what I thought about his review earlier and knew full well that someone would point him to it. I have in the past privately emailed some more detailed rational for the choices I’ve made to some members of this forum, but some of those private emails were immediately posted on other forums so I have stopped answering technical questions to most people in email.
As anyone who has been here for any length of time knows I’m happy to answer questions that are asked in good faith and I think many of the above questions deserve a good answer, on the other hand I’ve answered most of the questions on asked on this thread before elsewhere (even when I knew that some of the posters were trolls.)
Some people thrive in a contentious environment and some people like a spirited debate, but I don’t enjoy either now that I’m no longer a teenager (no denigration or judgement intended about others who are different than I am) so I’m not going to read any more of this thread."

The thing is a staggering 6k and you claim the price point isnt enough to justify a good transformer? LOL LOL LOL

 

[digicidal]

Just got my new issue of Stereophile (I can't remember how I went to the bathroom without it)... and in addition to @Kal Rubinson 's last column (always a good read) there's a beautiful full-page add with nothing but a picture of Ted... in all his glory - advertising the Windom firmware update. The ad verbiage was particularly perplexing to me:

Everyone wants a state-of-the-art DAC, but there's only one that stays state-of-the-art long after you purchase it.

They then go on to equate DACs that don't constantly have firmware updates as being less desirable and recommend using them in the PSAudio trade-in program... to get one that does (theirs obviously).

I LOL'd qute a bit... but mostly because the large text... positioned above Ted's not insignificant girth... "We Move Mountains to Give You the Best DAC Possible". I'm glad Ted has a good sense of humor... I'd be pissed if I were him - but I'm sure the cash calms him down a bit.

Anyway, the other reason I laughed - isn't this equivalent to an auto manufacturer saying that they have a recall every other month... so if your car hasn't had any recalls lately, trade it in on one of ours!?!

 

[pozz]

Was this posted yet? PS Audio: Windom is Launched

I'm pretty sure I also didn't see mention of the planned Obsidian "cost-no-obstacle" Ted Smith Signature DAC. About a $20k planned price. It will be very interesting to see how they will plan and market the launch with the looming threat of measurements.

Two separate boxes and all inputs and outputs will have ground lifts, apparently.

 

[GrimSurfer]

Was this posted yet? PS Audio: Windom is Launched

I'm pretty sure I also didn't see mention of the planned Obsidian "cost-no-obstacle" Ted Smith Signature DAC. About a $20k planned price. It will be very interesting to see how they will plan and market the launch with the looming threat of measurements.

Two separate boxes and all inputs and outputs will have ground lifts, apparently.

I can't see TS backing an "obsidian" product.

Psychedelic? Possibly. (I have plenty of shirts like his, only shared in family photos though.)

Unkept? Likely. (Use a comb, man. Finger combing is free... something I learned early on when deployed in the desert.)

But looks can be deceiving. So too can ad copy. It cuts both ways.