Review and Measurements of Paradigm PW Amp

[GGroch]

I believe holding down the mute button for a few seconds turns off ARC on the PW Amp.......Or perhaps this simply flattens the ARC curve and the DSP is still engaged.

I did not know that. I see the manual says: "To switch off ARC™ settings: PRESS and HOLD for 5 seconds. Upon releasing the button, a “negative tone” will sound verifying ARC™ settings are switched off." I am pretty sure this means it simply flattens the EQ settings rather than cuts it out of the circuit.

ADD: I just tested this: When you hold the Mute button for 5 seconds it makes a kind of sad "negative tone" I had not heard before. But, with the amp turned up quite high and no music playing, I do not hear a difference in the soft hiss with it off or turned on again. So I think ARC is still in the circuit, and the mute button 5 second hold is a way to compare the original flat frequency response to the ARC corrected one.

The test here of the MiniDSP HD 2x4 ($280 with mic) seems to test better than the PW/Amp. But the measurement used an older reporting method and few of the charts show the analog input to directly compare. I have not used a MiniDSP, but I understand the MiniDSP HD 2x4 provides measurements but does not automatically perform analysis or make changes. I believe you make them manually. I understand that the MiniDSP HD Dirac ($480 including mic) has the automated correction functions. I have not seen any in depth comparison of Dirac and Arc and if anyone knows how they differ I would be interested.

 

[TimW]

I have not seen any in depth comparison of Dirac and Arc and if anyone knows how they differ I would be interested.

I use ARC in one of my systems and Dirac in another. The system with ARC, implemented with a Paradigm PW Link, is a more traditional stereo in a small "sealed" room that is fairly dead due to the use of acoustic panels. The system with Dirac is a 2.2 multimedia system in a larger, open, oddly shaped room without any acoustic treatment. Dirac runs on a miniDSP DDRC-24 which is the 2x4 HD with a firmware upgrade.

I considered the stereo system to be my best but I did find the speakers a bit bright with bass that was not quite as impressive as the 2.2 system. The speakers in the system are definitely more engaging and lifelike. When I added ARC it certainly smoothed out the bass and made the tonal balance of the system more even. Unfortunately it also made the bass a bit overwhelming while detracting from the mids. I can mitigate the bass issue by eliminating any bass boost or room gain from the ARC target curve but the issue is not completely resolved. I'm thinking this is the consequence of asking a 2-way system to play full range. The woofers and amplifier are probably adding more distortion to the midrange when asked to correct for nulls in the deep bass response of the system. Perhaps continuing to play with ARC target curve settings will bring improvements.

On the other hand my 2.2 system contains a more dynamically dull but neutral sounding set of 3-way speakers. With the two 12" subwoofers and four 6.5" woofers for bass and midbass it is probably not fair to compare this system directly to the stereo. The miniDSP also has a big leg up on the PW Link because it has four outputs with many manual settings to exploit like crossovers and delay. To get these manual settings set properly I used multi-sub optimizer which, after a lot of fiddling, gave me a pretty great frequency response in the bass region and what sounds like well time aligned subs. ARC may have gotten me to this point with more ease, making measurements and basic frequency response correction more simple; but it just can't do what Dirac does on top of this.

Dirac measurements are very similar to ARC measurements but do take a little bit longer and require a USB connection to the miniDSP. Setting the target response with Dirac allows more fine tuning than ARC but is about as easy. Dirac with its power response correction clearly brings more of an improvement than ARC. I hadn't realized it, but in my 2.2 system the center image was shifted to the right a little because of the left wall being closer than the right to the main listening position. I only realize this now because Dirac has corrected it and given me an incredibly clear uncolored sounding center image. When vocals are sung in this center image they sound superbly clear even when the bass is rumbling away and the treble is sparkling. Turning Dirac on and off with the press of a button brings about a transformation. When I do the same with ARC the changes are much more subtle. ARC is great for taking care of basic FR issues in the bass region. The first few times I made those kinds of corrections with REW and a basic miniDSP 2x4 I spent more money, much more time, and ended up with inferior results to ARC with the PW Link. But Dirac is definitely superior in my opinion.

 

[HamNRye]

Thank you TimW for your detailed analysis of Dirac vs ARC. I'm wondering if you've played with the default max correction frequency at all on ARC? I noticed that when I changed it from the default 5k Hz to 500 Hz on my PW Amp 2.1 system that I got much better/fuller mid-range and hence a better center image as well. Having said that though I'm still not completely satisfied with dialog watching TV so I wonder if Dirac would be even better. My living room is in the corner of a larger square room that includes the kitchen and dining room so I sit very close, about 7 ft, to the left wall and much further, say 30 ft, from the right. I understand that Dirac corrects in the time domain response of the speaker which is supposed to help with stereo imaging: https://www.minidsp.com/applications/digital-room-correction/dirac-live-vs-rew. I don't believe ARC does this. I think I'm going to be parting with $480 soon.

 

[TimW]

I'm wondering if you've played with the default max correction frequency at all on ARC?

I have tried setting the max correction frequency to 600 Hz. The issue with bass muddying the mids was still there and the overly bright nature of my speakers was not addressed so I didn't care for it. I have heard many people recommend not correcting in room frequency response above the Schroeder frequency of a typical room which is said to be around 200 Hz. Others will tell you that it is okay to correct a few hundred hertz higher than the Schroeder frequency in the area where the room still has a significant affect. This video from Audioholics goes into a lot of detail regarding room correction and getting good bass in a room.

My living room is in the corner of a larger square room that includes the kitchen and dining room so I sit very close, about 7 ft, to the left wall and much further, say 30 ft, from the right.

My 2.2 multimedia system is in a very similar room, which is also my living room. The back of the room is open to the stairwell and upstairs. In the side of the room is a door sized opening to the dining room and kitchen. The TV and speakers are offset towards the left wall because a damn fireplace is in the way. Using the manual settings of the DDRC-24 to get the bass frequency response pretty good before Dirac made for great sound. Adding Dirac made for excellent sound even with this substandard space. With that said, I had no issues with the intelligibility of dialog before Dirac. It can certainly improve things and I recommend trying it out but it can't perform miracles. It does do corrections in the time domain which I think makes for greater improvements then ARC, especially in the mid to upper frequencies. Just don't expect it to be the magic bullet.

I think I'm going to be parting with $480 soon.

If you're referring to the miniDSP DDRC-24 and UMIK-1 just keep in mind it will take some time to get it setup properly. According to this miniDSP application note: "It is recommended that you perform a measurement to check for initial integration between the subwoofer and the main speakers around the crossover frequency. While Dirac Live will correct for frequency response anomalies, it can't fully correct if you have a large "hole" in the frequency response at the crossover." I used REW for this but you can also just use the Dirac program. I actually spent a few days trying to get my subs to properly integrate with my mains and it was frustrating at times. Good luck and I hope it works out for you.

 

[MSNWatch]

Posted on the LINK thread. Disappointed by the numbers on the AMP but not really unexpected. I will say though that for the addition of ARC to integrate a satellite - sub set-up may make up for the poorer measurements via analog only input.

 

[GGroch]

Audio Advice online has the PW/Amp listed on Amazon U.S. for $179 in "Like New" condition. They are an authorized Paradigm Dealer. I have purchased 2 "Like New" Paradigms from them and both were factory sealed. My guess is that they are not listing them as new to avoid undercutting other Paradigm dealers.

So, for $22 more than the PW/Link you get a 50 WPC amp and subwoofer out, and you lose the Preamp Outputs and Optical input/output. I own both models and they both sound the same in terms of quality to me, which is great.

 

[estuardo4]

I ordered the last unit from the link GGroch provided yesterday. But today they still got 2 units left. If somebody wants a unit, you need to act quick.

What I have observed from the different sites and forums discussing speakers, amps and DSP, I've realized that people tend to prefer the amp/speaker with included automatic DSP software, even if the amp does not measure well. Lyngdorf and Room Perfect. Paradigm/Anthem with ARC, the Kii powered speakers, etc. The ear knows what the ear wants to hear.

Are this systems the best available? Not. But they are forcing audiophiles to rethink their approach on buying new systems.

 

[Nate T]

Decided to pick one of these up. Managed to get through the update process after a few restarts. Play-fi even works, not that I expect to ever use it. Can't try arc yet without waking up the family, so will get to that tomorrow.

Anyone know if there's a way to turn off the loud beep through the speakers at startup, or the wifi light? (I have no plans to connect it to my network once it's set up, which apparently means the light will just blink forever.) Fortunately there's always electrical tape if it comes to that...

 

[GGroch]

Anyone know if there's a way to turn off the loud beep through the speakers at startup, or the wifi light? (I have no plans to connect it to my network once it's set up, which apparently means the light will just blink forever.)

Because of the long boot time, I am sure the PW/amp was designed to be left powered on all the time. It enters low power consumption standby after 20 minutes, and unlike the Klipsch Powergate, restarts when it senses a signal. When it is first booting from power off, in addition to the beep, the volume changes a lot, starting from relatively loud, to quite soft when fully booted. That will probably be more annoying than the beep. For my use I see no reason not to leave it on and let it auto-standby.

It was earlier noted that the Martin Logan Forte (seemingly identical) has a more complete owner manual, Including how to set the volume so that it does not always start at a reduced volume level.

 

[Nate T]

HMMM haven't been using the thing for a day, and now every time it's turned on, signal or no signal, regardless of volume setting, it's delivering a quick, repetitive 'beating' or 'popping' through the speakers. Goes away for a bit when I power cycle, then comes back. Guess it's being returned. :/

Edit: smh it appears the sound goes away if I plug it into ethernet. Possibly also if I let it onto my wifi network. Presumably it's the amp picking up noise from the wifi endlessly trying to connect...

 

[Nate T]

Because of the long boot time, I am sure the PW/amp was designed to be left powered on all the time. It enters low power consumption standby after 20 minutes, and unlike the Klipsch Powergate, restarts when it senses a signal. When it is first booting from power off, in addition to the beep, the volume changes a lot, starting from relatively loud, to quite soft when fully booted. That will probably be more annoying than the beep. For my use I see no reason not to leave it on and let it auto-standby.

It was earlier noted that the Martin Logan Forte (seemingly identical) has a more complete owner manual, Including how to set the volume so that it does not always start at a reduced volume level.

Also I checked out that owner's manual. There is a static volume mode, which in theory would be helpful when using an external DAC with volume control. Problem is, with the high noise floor on this thing, there is very audible white noise at the high static volume level. So in practice I need to set the volume lower, which means fiddling with it every time it shuts off.

 

[GGroch]

,,,,with the high noise floor on this thing, there is very audible white noise at the high static volume level.

I am not experiencing this. On my system using moderate efficiency speakers and a Powergate as the preamp, I can only hear hiss if I am within 3 inches of the tweeter when the PW/Amp is set for fixed output. I do not know what percentage of the hiss is from the Powergate vs the PW/Amp, but either way it is fine.

 

[Nate T]

I am not experiencing this. On my system using moderate efficiency speakers and a Powergate as the preamp, I can only hear hiss if I am within 3 inches of the tweeter when the PW/Amp is set for fixed output. I do not know what percentage of the hiss is from the Powergate vs the PW/Amp, but either way it is fine.

My speakers are pretty high efficiency. Maybe I'm more sensitive to the noise too. It didn't really surprise me given the noise floor seen in the review. Too bad that mode doesn't just lock the volume at whatever level you've set it to, rather than at a static high level.

 

[estuardo4]

Finally, after 4 weeks, I received my PW-Amp. It costed me $179 USD from Amazon. Thank you GGroch for telling us about the offer.

I connected the amp with no problems to my external DAC, to my speakers and configured the ARC software and the different system updates.

I'm still getting used to the ARC adjustments. My initial thoughts were that it sounded artificial, but my guess is that I'm used to the bass my speakers produced on my room, and now the bass sounds more present. I need to hear more music to judge.

I use the volume fixed option and I don't hear any white noise either, but it may be that my speakers are not an easy load.

I cannot drive my speakers as high as with the Powergate, but for my listening habits, it's loud enough.

I will put a piece of electrical tape on the wireless led and keep it always on.

So far, so good.

I don't know if someone at ASR knows where I can get a ARC 101 course.

 

[Nate T]

TBH I can't hear any difference with ARC on or off after doing the calibration, although the uncorrected curve was pretty decent, so not too surprising. Problem is, for some reason the amp has stopped making any sound when toggling ARC on or off... so I have no idea whether it's enabled or disabled now! I assume when you upload a fresh config it will enable it, so hopefully I'm getting the (completely indistinguishable) benefits of ARC...

 

[amirm]

TBH I can't hear any difference with ARC on or off after doing the calibration, although the uncorrected curve was pretty decent, so not too surprising. Problem is, for some reason the amp has stopped making any sound when toggling ARC on or off... so I have no idea whether it's enabled or disabled now! I assume when you upload a fresh config it will enable it, so hopefully I'm getting the (completely indistinguishable) benefits of ARC...

YOu can't hear the "sad" and "happy" tones when disabling/enabling? If so, then you are not switching it.

 

[Nate T]

YOu can't hear the "sad" and "happy" tones when disabling/enabling? If so, then you are not switching it.

Well, either the tones aren't working or the switching isn't working. Yesterday I was able to toggle it on and off and hear the 'sad and happy' tones (by holding the mute button). Still wasn't able to hear much of a difference, although that was before I switched my sub over to the line output to use the bass management. Now though, when I hold the mute button in exactly the same way, its light turns on for 5 seconds and then back off, as before, but instead of a tone it makes a barely audible 'tic'.

At some point here I'll probably try a factory reset to see if that helps. Get what you pay for I guess!

 

[mi-fu]

Well, either the tones aren't working or the switching isn't working. Yesterday I was able to toggle it on and off and hear the 'sad and happy' tones (by holding the mute button). Still wasn't able to hear much of a difference, although that was before I switched my sub over to the line output to use the bass management. Now though, when I hold the mute button in exactly the same way, its light turns on for 5 seconds and then back off, as before, but instead of a tone it makes a barely audible 'tic'.

At some point here I'll probably try a factory reset to see if that helps. Get what you pay for I guess!

Are you using turning the volume very low on your amp or power speakers? I also had a problem like yours. Later I realized that I had to turn up the volume a bit to hear the tones.

 

[Nate T]

Are you using turning the volume very low on your amp or power speakers? I also had a problem like yours. Later I realized that I had to turn up the volume a bit to hear the tones.

No, I'd thought that might be the case, but same behaviour even with it cranked up. Also just tried a factory reset which also didn't fix it. I wish there were some way to verify whether it's just that the tones are messed up, or if ARC isn't actually working at all.

Edit: Factory reset didn't work, turning it on and off a few times didn't work, but restarting it (by holding down the power button for 3 seconds) DID works. Happy/sad are back. Yay, I guess.

 

[superczar]

YOu can't hear the "sad" and "happy" tones when disabling/enabling? If so, then you are not switching it.

Easiest way to enable/disable ARC is through the Anthem ARC App
Once you run the app, it will show you a list of all available PW devices and a real time toggle option for ARC.
Makes it very easy to do an A/B test on ARC

I personally felt ARC did a great job at getting the soundstage and bass response right - far better than what (I dare say) I get with a classic Marantz PM17

Long story - I recently got a Link and an Amp along with a couple of Klipsch Gate for each room

I needed multi-room audio for too many rooms as my old Airplay base setup was getting flakey - The ability to link each one of them with every room's alexa was an added bonus!

What can I say, For the price paid, I don't have any reason to complain
The DTS play-fi (or its equivalent Klipsch app) certainly needs a full redesign though.

I also think the PW link is the best one of the lot - The PW amp does add a bit of white noise that's audible at no playback if you put your ear next to the tweeter