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Review and Measurements of NuForce STA-200 Power Amp

OShag

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So if more units have measured badly, ok there has to be something to it. And my amp may also have the same issues. But it does sound great.

By the way, I have just been set upon and insulted by four members of this site - with my first post. Not one word of greeting or well wishes as is customary with mannered people. when perusing this site I saw the invitation to join.. for this? I mean for God’s sake, do you want new members or don’t you? Never mind. This is my last post here.
 

OShag

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Thanks Digicidal for expanding on the premise presented that I don’t know what I am doing. I can’t say the same of you because I don’t even know who you are and vice versa. After 30 years of owning and listening to a range of gear I know what good sound is just as I know what bad sound is. I like good music from any genre. Some of my best friends are DJs that play House and Techno. Some of my good friends are professional rock and R&B musicians. I sang as a choirboy with one of the best Cathedral choirs in Europe as a boy. My father was an accomplished pianist. My sister is a world class violin soloist that tours the world playing with the finest orchestras. My pitch is good (although my hearing is diminished slightly in one ear). I admit I am not knowledgable enough by a long chaulk, and love to learn, but through much experience and natural musicality in my blood, I know good sound when I hear it.

incidentally, I directly compared this against several other amps. I stand by what I said. It may measure like kaka, but it sounds bloody good especially for $499. You don’t have to believe me. But I know a good amp when I hear it.
 

digicidal

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Well, I certainly don't feel that anyone was insulting you per se - I definitely attempted to explain rather than insult... sorry if I failed in that. However, you also have to understand that your position is entirely contrary to AudioScienceReview, as you stated a subjective position as invalidating an objective one. Don't let it get you down... we've got several here that will back you up! ;) They get a ration of shit too, but they're tough and persistent.

Thanks Digicidal for expanding on the premise presented that I don’t know what I am doing. I can’t say the same of you because I don’t even know who you are and vice versa. After 30 years of owning and listening to a range of gear I know what good sound is just as I know what bad sound is. I like good music from any genre. Some of my best friends are DJs that play House and Techno. Some of my good friends are professional rock and R&B musicians. I sang as a choirboy with one of the best Cathedral choirs in Europe as a boy. My father was an accomplished pianist. My sister is a world class violin soloist that tours the world playing with the finest orchestras. My pitch is good (although my hearing is diminished slightly in one ear). I admit I am not knowledgable enough by a long chaulk, and love to learn, but through much experience and natural musicality in my blood, I know good sound when I hear it.

incidentally, I directly compared this against several other amps. I stand by what I said. It may measure like kaka, but it sounds bloody good especially for $499. You don’t have to believe me. But I know a good amp when I hear it.

It's not that "you don't know what you're doing" - actually I think some here probably bristled at the thought that you knew exactly what you were doing... just not in the way you meant it. ;) I have a similar level of experience, though my pitch is horrible (and range worse) - but I have played piano for years (hate that too though) and have owned a crap-load of gear, and known many musicians - however, very little truly high-end gear and all of that used market goods.

The problem you will have here, and indeed in any scientific forum, is that - technically speaking - none of us "know good sound when we hear it" - at least not to the same level that an ADC of even dismal resolution does. That's why measurements are important.

What you're describing is that you know what you like music to sound like. Of course you do! We all do... and within a fairly reasonable margin - we're all right! However, the question remains... do you like this amp more than every amp? Do you know whether the amps you compared it to were more or less transparent? How can we determine which amp is good, if it requires your ears to test it in order to be truly valid?

The fun thing (for many of us at least) is when you start testing your actual knowledge in an objective sense... and if you're anything like the majority here - you'll find out that your brain is the most deceptive thing in your system... and is not to be trusted ever! :D

Sorry if it comes off harsh, but stick with it... there's a ton of great research here, a ton of great people, and far more than a little expertise. (None of it related to me at all, of course). LOL! However, if you're not ready to have some walls torn down, then you probably want to move your castle to a different forum altogether.

For what it's worth, I've got a couple amps that I guarantee measure far worse than this one - as well as only putting out 5W - which I really, really enjoy still. I just now no longer confuse that with being accurate (or good in the pure sense) amplification at all.
 

SDC

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I have job225 which I guess have the same circuit.
Bought it when I still believed "fast sound, little giant" stuffs matter. (With pure silver cables and thick power cable, haha!)

Well I don't hear any magical fast sounds after I found ASR and learned eyes and brain plays with what I hear.

But still kind of like this amp cause it's high gain is good when bi-amping CD and woofer.
 

OShag

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Ok so thats a great answer. I get what you are saying and thank you for taking the time to explain. You do make complete sense. I am always anxious to learn.
 

audimus

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By the way, Audimus, is HiFiHeaven a bad company?

Don’t know anything about them other than they are the only retailer for NuForce and trying to clear out the inventory at liquidation prices.
 

Frank Dernie

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I have a Job 225 as well. The internal pictures show the circuit board to be very similar but not the same.
I have found it to be inconveniently high gain and needs careful installation to make sure there are no hum loops and I did eventually buy the matching preamp for a gain match.
I used it for a while in my main system whilst my Devialet Original d'Atelier was away having its hardware update. The noise level was not noticeable at all, even ear against speaker with my very efficient speakers.
I did not notice any distortion, though I didn't do a careful comparison, it was entirely satisfactory and I enjoyed my music just as much as ever. In fact the thing I missed most was having a remote with up/down volume buttons (which I hate) rather than the proper rotary control on the Devialet remote!
 

murraycamp

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Ok so thats a great answer. I get what you are saying and thank you for taking the time to explain. You do make complete sense. I am always anxious to learn.

Keep reading. Lots of great information here. And welcome to ASR!
 

sbo6

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My experience mirrors oShag. Great sounding little amp. I may buy another and biamp.
 

digicidal

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Also probably important to note that if you took this amp back in time 30 years or so and threw it into a lineup of similarly priced gear... it might win awards (well, depending on the competition). At the same time, a 36" TV would be called gigantic (and would weigh 200lbs+), and getting 10mpg from a V8 would be considered "efficient". Compared to a recent Benchmark, nCore, Purifi, or even many Emotiva models (though not all)... not in the least. It does have a pleasing minimalist aesthetic and at the lower price, is much easier to accept. At the original MSRP, it's shameless IMO.

Still, if you own it and enjoy listening with it... good for you! Nothing wrong with liking the sound of poorly measuring gear IMO - unless you're the manufacturer and you didn't post accurate specifications along with it:
SNR: 100dB - between 4% and 10% dishonest (96/90)
THD: <0.03% - between 20% and 32% dishonest (.0374/.0391) - and if taken at the "knee" even less honest.
FR: 20Hz-80kHz - probably honest, but scary for other reasons.
Gain: 34.8dB - honest, but also strange and problematic.

Say you were going to pair this with a SMSL SU-8 DAC - which would look pretty slick considering a similar (but much more "budget" aesthetic). What are the odds that you'd have to reduce the output to the point where it was sitting smack-dab in the middle of the ESS "hump" - so suddenly your cheap, high SINAD DAC now looks more like a NAD AVR... although, still more transparent than the STA-200 in all respects. Don't know what the filters are on the DAC, but I'd definitely want some considering that I'd be concerned what would happen to the amp (and my tweeters) without it.
 
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Wes

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How do I find an amp close to the Benchmark in SQ, but close to this one in price?
 

NTomokawa

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something cheaper than that...
I think you're going to have a hard time getting AHB2 levels of performance at bargain-basement prices. At least right now.
 

Wes

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Just wanting to get rel. close to AH2B for under $1,000

or I can wait for the license from THX to go non-exclusive, or the patent to run out
 

dwkdnvr

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If you're up for a DIY effort and can live with lower power, you can build a Neurochrome Mod-86 for under $400. Other than that, the hypex modules are your best bet. If you can scavenge a case, you can do a NC400 build for under $1000. Current pricing (minus shipping) for 2 amp modules and a single PS is about $750 I think. The older UCD modules are even cheaper, and many report that they are still very close to the NC400 in performance.
 

sbo6

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Why is it you all never talk about how well the equipment makes music? Isn’t that the reason for audio equipment? Do you listen to cellos, oboes, trumpets, etc. or do you just hear SINAD?
Because this group assumes the measurements are all that's needed to tell you how it sounds.
 

Sal1950

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Why is it you all never talk about how well the equipment makes music? Isn’t that the reason for audio equipment? Do you listen to cellos, oboes, trumpets, etc. or do you just hear SINAD?
That's what measurements do, tell you how well a component reproduces the input signal at the output.
So yes, what you hear is the SINAD performance and other specs.
 

NTomokawa

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Because this group assumes the measurements are all that's needed to tell you how it sounds.
Not this Schiit again. :facepalm:

If measurements are not indicative of how a given piece of equipment sounds, then there's a missing element that's regulating the sound, yet not showing up on measurements. Two pieces of equipment can therefore measure identically yet sound completely different, thanks to this missing element.

Please tell me what the missing element is.
 
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