Review and Measurements of New Topping D50s DAC

[b4nt]

I now connected an oscilloscope to the D50s, loaded by a 100k resistor. I wanted to check some output traces arround those buzzy sounds.

May someone redo the same test? Because my setup and probe may be bad, and noisy.

In the excerpt I took from Fabrizio's FLAC, I notice a shape difference between 0,3890 and 0,3900, the signal doesn't raise enough:

 

[b4nt]

Still looking at what is comming out here. One channel (nr 2 or bottom channel below) seems more affected after some rapid signal changes. Which could correspond to the distortion or bad sounds I get out of my loud speakers for some of my "noisy" FLACs.

As a next step, I'll have to open the D50s, to track this further inside the unit. Might be a PSU or weak decoupling capacitors issue....

The track part i'm now playing in loop using Audacity is that one: http://dl.free.fr/b1XGoPFJ0
Both DAC channels are loaded with a 100k resistor. Then the oscilloscope.

And my DAC output seems at least distorded where highlighted:

The DAC output after approx 0,0040 is here different, especially on channel 2:

 

[Gradius]

I did modded, but I get ZERO noise since day 1.

The PCB had some flux around the connectors, and of course, I did cleaned everything up with isopropyl alcohol.

I use an external power supply (Mean Well), also a much better USB cable.

I did isolate the power (+5V) from USB connector too.

For now, I'm just using Atom amp connected to my HD650 headphones. RCA cables are from world's best.

Before moving, I used my HS80M studio monitors too.

 

[Gradius]

New driver version 5.12 was out:

-----------------------------------------------------
V5.12.0 (May 18, 2021)
-----------------------------------------------------

* New: MIDI pipe statistics in the Spy utility

* New: several registry parameters for MIDI added

* Fix: switch preferred ASIO buffer size with driver package containing MIDI only and audio devices

* Chg: MIDI RX now uses USB flow control

* Chg: improved ISO packet error check

* Chg: scripts use Python 3.9.1 now

* Chg: DCK needs Windows 10 now

* Chg: documentation

* Chg: one channel can be part of more than 4 sound devices now
---------

Waiting on Topping to update them.

 

[Veri]

------------------

* New: MIDI pipe statistics in the Spy utility

* New: several registry parameters for MIDI added

* Fix: switch preferred ASIO buffer size with driver package containing MIDI only and audio devices

* Chg: MIDI RX now uses USB flow control

* Chg: improved ISO packet error check

* Chg: scripts use Python 3.9.1 now

* Chg: DCK needs Windows 10 now

* Chg: documentation

* Chg: one channel can be part of more than 4 sound devices now
---------

Waiting on Topping to update them.

Just look at what was changed. It's pretty much always bugfixes, sometimes to support newest Windows updates. It's never gonna make much of a difference unless you actually HAVE issues ....

 

[Berwhale]

It's out...

V5.1.2 driver for E30, D10, D10s, D30Pro, D50, D50s, D70, D70s, D90, DX3 Pro, DX7 Pro.-TOPPING

 

[Gradius]

It's out...

Thanks for let us know, however the version is indeed 5.12 (not 5.1.2).

I wonder why they love to make confusion:

 

[Berwhale]

Thanks for let us know, however the version is indeed 5.12 (not 5.1.2).
I wonder why they love to make confusion:

If we're going to be picky, the version is 5.12.0.

 

[Gradius]

If we're going to be picky, the version is 5.12.0.

As a programmer (since 80s) I know how version numbers are really important (believe me or not).

 

[AaBoy]

Currently, I have a Topping A50s + Apple USB-C dongle and would like to upgrade my DAC part of the setup. So the natural fit would be the Topping D50s (it has Bluetooth so that the PC doesn't have to run). But the D50s it somewhat expensive at 250€. Would someone know to recommend something that would work well with A50s and have Bluetooth but cheaper?

Edit: And available in EU, because Schiit is sh*t with availability in EU

 

[b4nt]

Hi, has anyone occasionnal superposed noise issues with the D50s, or with any other DAC via ASIO on Windows?

With a standard config and Squeezlite player, most the time, my setup is playing very decently, via ASIO. I can see the PCM birate changes on the D50s screen, so I assume the setup is Ok, with sound via ASIO.

But often, every 15 to 30 minutes or so, I get a half second of superposed hiss or cracks, like mixed in the audio output. So far, I didn't find what the trigger for this added noise is (CPU throttling or any other cause?). If I use windows Direct sound for audio output, I do not have that hiss issue, but this isn't hires.

I believe i've tried everything which is suggested on the Internet to tweak Windows in order to avoid crackling/popping noise (buffer size, CPU perfomance, disable fast restart, so on). And I upgraded to the latest Topping driver. I also tried to raise player process priority to max then real time, but I still got that occasional short hiss mixed in the output. A latest Windows upgrade is pending (need to reboot my PC for that), but according to release note of KB5003637, nothing is related to sound in this update.

Now i'm doing an ultimate test, which wasn't sugested on the Internet. I've disabled "TOPPING USB DAC" in "audio/video/game controlers" peripherals, keeping there only TOPPING USB DAC in the specific "Topping USB Audio Devices" section. So only, it seems I have no more such occasionnal superposed hiss/noise... but I'm still testing/listening, if this definitly fixes my problem.

But doing so, Windows considers the PC has no more audio output peripheral. Only my dedicated audio app is able to play sounds via ASIO and I cannot anymore use the Windows volume control for ASIO output volume control...

 

[Berwhale]

Why are you using ASIO? Have you tried increasing the ASIO buffer? Have you tried using DirectSound or WASAPI?

 

[b4nt]

Just checked again. If I'm using DirectSound or WASAPI, my 48 or 96k FLACs are played at 44.1k only according to the D50s screen... Looks like I get HiRes only with ASIO. The ASIO buffer is at his max, 2048.

It worked so for days, using ASIO, then some noise started to come mixed out.

I again tried different things, including loading my CPU at 100% using a stress tool: CPU gets hot but everything runs fine, this overload doesn't generate any noise. I may have no noise for a long period, then I get some every 15 to 30 minutes.

Next I'll connect the DAC to Linux, to listen.

 

[Berwhale]

Just checked again. If I'm using DirectSound or WASAPI, my 48 or 96k FLACs are played at 44.1k only according to the D50s screen... Looks like I get HiRes only with ASIO.

When using DirectSound and WASAPI shared modes, Windows will convert to whatever you have told it to. I have mine set to 24/96 when using TOSLink (You will usually get more options using a USB connection)...

 

[b4nt]

Thanks, I didn't notice one could change that from default 44.1 or 48.

I used ASIO, like suggested, for bit perfect output, living the filtering job to the DAC. "Windows will convert to whatever you have told it to ": now I get fixed 96k in the output according to D50s, whatever FLAC I listen to...

But I'll try that, uninstalling the ASIO driver. Again, to listen, if i get or not such noises.

Currently, i'm listen to amplifer and D50s powered on, with no sound playing: no crackles, that part seems to be clean.

Edit... unsinstalled. I'll now listed so for some hours, without the Topping/ASIO driver.

 

[b4nt]

Why are you using ASIO? Have you tried increasing the ASIO buffer? Have you tried using DirectSound or WASAPI?

I tried a lot of things with ASIO. Now i tried what you suggested, and removed also the ASIO driver.

Here, WASAPI doens't work (no sound, i didn't search further). So I used DirectSound. But DirectSound device wanished from Windows after 3 hours or so.... So i used MME device.

Since I switche away from ASIO, I have no more hiss/cracklings/pops in my audio. MME is streaming at 384k/32 bits with my CPU in low power mode. Which seems to work.

Now i'd like to use ASIO to avoid that up/down sampling by Windows and for bit perfect streaming to the DAC. So my concern or question is still the same. How do i get that working?

 

[b4nt]

Meanwhile, those posts and the previous data in the discussions (about Topping Infrared protocol) could be usefull.

All Topping DACs shall have the same remote controlers (I don't like any, and may build a volume/mute knob for my D50s).

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...emote-for-topping-dx7.2334/page-4#post-816009

 

[Vosya]

Now i'd like to use ASIO to avoid that up/down sampling by Windows and for bit perfect streaming to the DAC. So my concern or question is still the same. How do i get that working?

Maybe for a start it is worth announcing your version of Windows and pre-measuring DPC and ISR routine execution latencies in it?

 

[Gradius]

Mine on Win10:

 

[b4nt]

Maybe for a start it is worth announcing your version of Windows and pre-measuring DPC and ISR routine execution latencies in it?

My Windows is in the latest available version (last patch/reboot of 2 days ago). It is 21H1. Depending where I look into, it shows different builds...

DPC/ISR with my CPU (mobile i7 6 cores) in low power mode should be Ok (the screen shoot). I had made tests with full CPU power whilst I got noise, that made no difference.