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Review and Measurements of New JDS Labs Atom Headphone Amp

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Deleted member 3566

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That is correct.

Its not as easy as people simplistically think it is. It requires a fair investment of time, material and money to get one done. Not to mention the background sunken costs such as a decent CAD software and CAD workstation.



Its not the so cheap as you think it is without significant quantities. I am qualified to speak for that as I have actually made my own CNC case that's very similar to the one on March's DAC offering. As a one off sample, it costs as much, if not a little more than the KTB itself. And that is not counting the man hours I put into designing it. Mind you, I have been doing mechanical design for close to 2 decades, and I charge my clients for my man hours to do such work. How much specifically, depends on job and value of project.

Sigh...I thought we were done....

P4010.gif


Having done mechanical design, you also should be well-versed about economic of scale (costs drastically go down, as one produces more of the same unit). Just as you should be aware of the fact that handmade labor is not at all comparable to mass production; that's what the industrial revolution was all about. It's a big disparity in price there alone. Even more so in our modern, global world, where components are outsourced.

Your personal account of your own design process and its costs is a perfect example of that. It's true even relating to other products. You think Schiit or even JDS can keep the costs of their products at $99 by having someone individually making every case? Such a process would cost many times more than the $99 price tag of the product itself. It would be even more true if they only made a single unit (rather than ordering wholesale), like yourself, as costs of R&D alone would completely dominate the share of costs.
 
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maxxevv

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@March Audio doesn't do production anywhere in the same order of magnitude as either Schiit nor JDS.

If you have no idea what you're talking about, then don't and stop embarrassing yourself .
 

March Audio

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@March Audio doesn't do production anywhere in the same order of magnitude as either Schiit nor JDS.

If you have no idea what you're talking about, then don't and stop embarrassing yourself .
Unfortunately there are totally clueless Internet experts who have no experience or knowledge in the area who like to pontificate.

You have to ignore them. They are idiots. You have to be an idiot to pontificate about things which you have no knowledge. It's embarrassing to watch.

The other thing they don't know is that any business aims to sell at (typically) 2.5 to 5 x BOM. If it doesn't it won't be a business for very long. This is to cover all the background costs, some you have mentioned, and to generate a worthwhile profit. There is no greed in this, I do it as its something I enjoy that provides a supplementary income. I haven't bought the yacht yet. There is obviously a market beyond the cheapest products (I am actually selling products) , and I'm hardly the only company aiming above the bottom end.

Volume reduces cost, but you still have to wonder how much (little) profit some companies are making, their long term viability, or how much time they invest in things like quality control and testing to keep costs very low.

I'm sure one of the idiot Internet experts will pop back at this, but I won't be responding, just that I saw my name mentioned. ;)
 
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D

Deleted member 3566

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@March Audio doesn't do production anywhere in the same order of magnitude as either Schiit nor JDS.

If you have no idea what you're talking about, then don't and stop embarrassing yourself .

You mean like applying your individual, hand-made design process of a single case to justify that of a large-scale manufacturing process? You have yourself to blame for being outed for making such a flawed comparison, after having thrown one assertive comment after another about your supposed proficiency in the field in that very same comment. The fact that you in response are lashing out at me, just demonstrates that even further (on top of the fact that you clearly are aggrieved).

March Audio may not do production anywhere in the same order of magnitude as either Schiit or JDS, but they still are in in an order of magnitude higher than your single one, and are also doing it through a manufacturing process. That includes the KTB itself, which doesn't cost $99 for an ODM partner to back-order.

Unfortunately there are totally clueless Internet experts who have no experience or knowledge in the area who like to pontificate.

You have to ignore them. They are idiots. You have to be an idiot to pontificate about things which you have no knowledge. It's embarrassing to watch.

You are right. Outside of my educational wisdom, but also my own experience and also general distrust of non-accountable structures (like corporations), I have no knowledge of your specific business, due to lack of documentation and data of your enterprise and its manufacturing process. Nevertheless, it is a manufacturing process, and it is a business built solely on the prospect of profit, as you just noted, as we all agreed. I don’t see how that has ever been in contention, as the question here is the worth of your product, due to the cost of an alternative with the similar technology. One that users in here tried to justify, by claiming that the price increase was due to increased manufacturing costs of the added case.

The fact that you come into this discussion, throwing an “idiots” fit, and not really providing much information, but still expect to be taken seriously when rationalizing your product’s price, is not very convincing. In fact, it only encourages me to push this matter even further. Especially when you criticize me about not knowing the BOM, when you’re not ready to even provide that very BOM yourself. Your contractor provides this to you, so you are more than welcome to provide us with the price of the entirety of the process, or the case itself, for us.

You very carefully point out the need for a business to make a profit. Then let’s apply that simple truism to Khadas, who, as you acknowledge here, are selling the KTB with a profit in mind. Now, I have no hard data to go by here, but I think it’s rational to assume that the R&D, as well as the process of producing electronic circuits alone, from photolithographic techniques even down to the solder of the components, is, at least comparatively, a far more complex procedure. Also, Khadas already is responsible for the assembly line operating procedure, most of quality control (outside of the additional QC of their ODM clients), product assembly, firmware burning, etc. In other words, pretty much all of the complex and cost-expensive heavy lifting is done by them, when making the KTB. All these apply for themselves as well when they sell it for a consumer price of $99.

All that you add on in costs, other than additional QC-input and the raw product, is manufacture and assembly cost of the additional case. I’m curious to know through which partner you do that, as Khadas, on their own ODM page, note that “We have professional designers who can do both Industrial and Mechanical Design for your product”, in regards to the question of “enclosure design”. They even design the packaging for the product, upon request. I have feeling it's nowhere close to $320, or even $100 -- either by Khadas, or any other third party.
 
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Hugo9000

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Déjà vu. @amirm Didn't someone already hijack threads to roast @March Audio in these same terms and with such vehemence? It's very boring.

I wish these people would please keep this out of the JDS Labs Atom thread, as it has nothing to do with their product (which I purchased based on Amir's review, and I am extremely happy with the unit, incidentally!).
 

PorchSong

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Anybody got any good recommendations for (very) short and cable management-friendly RCA-cables to use for the JDS Atom, along with an external DAC (like the Khadas)? Burned myself too many times on buying RCA cables that are either utter crap, or turn out to be, online.

I found these cables to be rather excellent. The quality is amazing. Built and shipped quickly as well.

http://www.ghentaudio.com/part/a01.html
 
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amirm

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Déjà vu. @amirm Didn't someone already hijack threads to roast @March Audio in these same terms and with such vehemence? It's very boring.
They did. Folks, stay with the topic.
 
D

Deleted member 3566

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Yeah, I was thinking about that too, and it seems to be the best solution, to have minimal amount of space behind the units. I sent a mail to one of the custom cable sites, asking them if they can do something like that for me; that is, angled on both ends, but only 10cm long.
 
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milw50717

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Just an FYI. If you have a soldering iron, wire cutter and wire stripper, it may be worth considering making your own cables. Sites like www.markertek.com in the US offer a good selection of cables available by the foot as well as some good quality RCA connectors. It is very easy to fabricate your own cables which gives you complete control over components and configuration (drain wires, etc). A quick online search will give you plenty of hits about recommended cables as well as their flexibility.
 

THEV

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Do you guys think the Atom is worth the ~170 USD price tag in Europe? Was thinking of pairing it with the smsl su8 to also support my monitors (with XLR), but for the combined price I might also just get a topping DX7s, are there any other options you guys recommend?
 
D

Deleted member 3566

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Where in Europe you residing? I can sell you mine in mint condition cheaper than that, and buy one new for myself when travelling to the US in a few weeks.

Honestly, for stack, JDS Atom is pretty much the reigning champion of amps, technically. Cleaner than DX7s too, and more than enough power for anything (even with my EQ of HD800, with as much as -11dB offset, I have more than enough power). Only worthy step up, and only then really in power and functions, is THX 789. Having tried it myself, I was pretty unimpressed by it. It's pretty damn good of a value, except its benefits over the Atom were redundant imo (no need for more power, for example).

As for a DAC, there's plenty of options. But again, the by far best and most reasonable one, technically, is Khadas Tone Board. It beats well above its price range. Also, seeing as you can buy a decent case for it for 15 euros online, it's a good alternative.
 
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amirm

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Do you guys think the Atom is worth the ~170 USD price tag in Europe?
It would be worth twice that! It has a large performance gap above the rest of the field....
 

JohnYang1997

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Finally, the atom is in Sydney. I'll get my hands on it soon.
I'll do some modding. But first I'll measure this thing my way and show the strength and limitation of this little thing. And there will be comparisons.
 
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