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Review and Measurements of NAD T758 V3 AVR

Dj7675

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Once they see that this T758 review comes into the top ten search results on Google, they might change their attitude
That is what I find most intriguing about this site-changing the discussion from just features to also include measured performance. Measuring both seperates like preamps/amps as well as mass market av receivers to me is one of the most valueable things done here.
Unlike DAC’s and smaller, less expensive items, amps, preamps, and receivers are generally more expensive and larger (hence more shipping). Maybe someday more manufacturers will send units in, but until then, if you are in the market for a new piece of gear and order it, have it shipped to Amir directly (obviously check/arrange with Amir first) . I have done this with some items and it works well and is interesting!
 

digicidal

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Why would anyone think that contacting NAD support would yield a conservation about third party testing results vs their marketing claims? Support‘s role is pretty well defined and understood by most on this forum I would think; provide technical support to customers with technical problems. Their response is pretty fantastic really from the point of view of a technical support team, very customer focussed.

PR and marketing contact details have been posted here and are easily found online, they should be where the volley should be aimed.

As I said before, they should be commended on their response from a customer relations standpoint... however, that didn't stop them from contributing some editorializing in their response either. Additionally, they are the primary contact point for a customer - my guess is that if you contact the marketing division as a customer displeased with how your unit tested on a forum... they will have a good chuckle and mail you the glossy tear sheets for their upcoming products as consolation.

If you're a distributor, now you might have some traction - and if you're a major retail outlet (like Crutchfield or B&H Photo) you might even have a dedicated rep you could work with to escalate. If your total "investment" is the retail purchase of a couple of their products - then the response received is already a very good one, and expecting any more is just wishful thinking. IME at least.
 
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amirm

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They are small enough company that someone in support can easily forward such responses to their marketing people. It is not like we are talking Samsung, etc. that outsource millions of calls they get.
 

bagkyr

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if I only use the amplifier as pre/pro, because my speakers are active, then there is still the problem of distortion at volume >-6db;
 

digicidal

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They are small enough company that someone in support can easily forward such responses to their marketing people. It is not like we are talking Samsung, etc. that outsource millions of calls they get.

Well, I hope that's the case with NAD. However, the two aren't necessarily related. I've dealt with off-shore service bureau customer support reps even with companies that were small - especially those involved in manufacturing.

if I only use the amplifier as pre/pro, because my speakers are active, then there is still the problem of distortion at volume >-6db;
That initial SINAD graph is for Coax in -> Preamp out - so yes, amps are not required to make this a bottom-rung performance metric. Using the amps alone is about the only way this could be considered "fair" performance-wise (barely). Using as a DAC or PrePro, you'd do better with almost anything else.
 
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amirm

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if I only use the amplifier as pre/pro, because my speakers are active, then there is still the problem of distortion at volume >-6db;
Yes. That is how I tested and found that issue. They need to have a way to power off the amplifiers so that they don't clip and cause issues elsewhere. Alternatively they need to have an isolated power supply for the low-power subsystems such as the DACs.
 
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amirm

amirm

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Well, I hope that's the case with NAD.
FYI after my positive review of the M27 amplifier, I sent a link to their marketing contact in their press releases the night before last. So far, no acknowledgement at all. It was a positive message to them with no link to this review. If they don't respond to that, then we know there is no communication issue. They know about our findings and choosing to stay silent. That is fine as long as they go back and work on fixing these issues.
 

eycatcher

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It appears the initial preamp output measurement represents the performance of the unit. The DAC looks to be the limiting factor. If you used it as a prepro you still wouldn't be able to run full power on some insensitive amps before distortion set in. I looked up the DAC a while back when I was considering this unit. I dont recall specifically which one they used but it wasnt competitive with some others at the price point. Dirac is really what got most of the attention of most users.
 

NoFuzz

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It appears the initial preamp output measurement represents the performance of the unit. The DAC looks to be the limiting factor. If you used it as a prepro you still wouldn't be able to run full power on some insensitive amps before distortion set in. I looked up the DAC a while back when I was considering this unit. I dont recall specifically which one they used but it wasnt competitive with some others at the price point. Dirac is really what got most of the attention of most users.
If I understand this correctly, it has not much use to connect a poweramp to the NAD t758v3, it will still show (ehm, sound) distortion?

This is my first post and yes, I got here because of these very disappointing measurements of the T758v3. I own it but could possibly return it still, though I'm happy with the sound I hear and compared it to Denon (x3500, x4500) and Marantz (7012).
There is however a problem when certain settings are active I hear distortion in tracks, even at lower levels. It is known by NAD and they are working on it because they say it can be solved by a software update.

This made me think: could it be related to the used DAC, and there software works around the specifics of the DAC to prevent distortion? Is the Dirac software using a different path with a different dac? Though Dirac is a dsp function and has to work with what the DAC feeds it, right?
 

Rja4000

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If I understand this correctly, it has not much use to connect a poweramp to the NAD t758v3, it will still show (ehm, sound) distortion?

This is my first post and yes, I got here because of these very disappointing measurements of the T758v3. I own it but could possibly return it still, though I'm happy with the sound I hear and compared it to Denon (x3500, x4500) and Marantz (7012).
There is however a problem when certain settings are active I hear distortion in tracks, even at lower levels. It is known by NAD and they are working on it because they say it can be solved by a software update.

This made me think: could it be related to the used DAC, and there software works around the specifics of the DAC to prevent distortion? Is the Dirac software using a different path with a different dac? Though Dirac is a dsp function and has to work with what the DAC feeds it, right?
Well, from what I read in Amir's measurements, I think if your power amp can be driven loud enough with a -6dB (1Vrms) signal, that's still potentially much better than the internal amp and, let's say, decent. (SINAD at 88dB)

The DSP is digital domain.
(DSP means Digital Signal Processor)
The DSP output feeds the DAC.

What functions are generating those distortions that you can hear even at low level?
 
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eycatcher

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At low power 1vrms the internal and external amp should measure and sound good since it will be low distortion. I’m doubtful that software can change that. It has more to do with the implementation of the DAC, chip selection and op amps
 

NoFuzz

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Well, from what I read in Amir's measurements, I think if your power amp can be driven loud enough with a -6dB (1Vrms) signal, that's still potentially much better than the internal amp and, let's say, decent. (SINAD at 88dB)

The DSP is digital domain.
(DSP means Digital Signal Processor)
The DSP output feeds the DAC.

What functions are generating those distortions that you can hear even at low level?

When my speaker configuration for the front speakers is set to "small", I can hear distortions, independent of volume. It depends on the sound and anything near pure sine waves (like a choir singing) and probably at a certain frequency (Did not really test that out) distortion can emerge. Since it is not there when I set the speaker config to "Large". NAD says this will probably be fixed in a future software upgrade. It is alos not there when the track is played at a better resolution: Tidal has 44.1 khz, 96 khz & 192 khz versions of some tracks (e.g. several Norah Jones ALbums) and the better the resolution, the less (96khz) or no distortion (192 khz) at all.
But, after reading about these measurements on this fourm I'm not sure it can be fixed in software...?
 

digicidal

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When my speaker configuration for the front speakers is set to "small", I can hear distortions, independent of volume. It depends on the sound and anything near pure sine waves (like a choir singing) and probably at a certain frequency (Did not really test that out) distortion can emerge. Since it is not there when I set the speaker config to "Large". NAD says this will probably be fixed in a future software upgrade. It is alos not there when the track is played at a better resolution: Tidal has 44.1 khz, 96 khz & 192 khz versions of some tracks (e.g. several Norah Jones ALbums) and the better the resolution, the less (96khz) or no distortion (192 khz) at all.
But, after reading about these measurements on this fourm I'm not sure it can be fixed in software...?

Well, based on the symptoms it seems like the distortion is somehow introduced by implementation of the crossover... I have no idea why that would be the case, nor how a software update would resolve it. I guess more directly, I can't imagine how something of that nature made it into a released version in the first place if it was simply a software issue. :facepalm: Also strange on the resolution dependency of the problem - I suppose there's a problem in the actual handling of the digital audio that causes more problems up-sampling? Sounds like "kicking the can" to me, but let us know if the next update fixes it.
 

GrimSurfer

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DouglasteR

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Yuck, makes me wonder how bad my Pioneer Elite SC-35 (that i almost sold my kidney for) really is :(
 

GrimSurfer

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Yuck, makes me wonder how bad my Pioneer Elite SC-35 (that i almost sold my kidney for) really is :(

According to Pioneer, the power output is 7 x 140W while consuming 330W. I don't know how this is possible without using some (ahem) creative test conditions.

So I'd take your kidney off of Pirate Bay and stop asking questions whose answers are likely to be... uncomfortable.
 

DouglasteR

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According to Pioneer, the power output is 7 x 140W while consuming 330W. I don't know how this is possible without using some (ahem) creative test conditions.

So I'd take your kidney off of Pirate Bay and stop asking questions whose answers are likely to be... uncomfortable.

Sometimes a man must face (and hear) the ugly truth :p
 

GrimSurfer

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Sometimes a man must face (and hear) the ugly truth :p

Brave men always do! That's what makes them admirable.

I went through a phase buying cheap tools. I had a Chinese mad electric drill literally catch fire while I was using it. The $20 I paid for it was a waste. Now I destroy much more expensive hand and electric tools!
 
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