Review and Measurements of miniDSP SHD DAC, DSP And Streamer

[Bachemar]

I reckon an SHD and a purifi amp (March Audio most likely) is pretty much the killer combo.

Slick!

 

[Alexanderc]

Awesome thanks for the advice! I reckon this is the way to go. I will get the SHD and integrate it and see how I go. If I can remove my Quad preamp, DAC, turntable and phono stage without losing anything as far as sound quality goes that will be great. I cannot wait to get started with the DSP aspects as I think this is where the next real step up in sound quality seems to come from. I reckon an SHD and a purifi amp (March Audio most likely) is pretty much the killer combo.

There isn’t a built in phono stage on the MiniDSP. You’ll need to keep that if you want to listen to records.
EDIT: never mind, I just saw your earlier post. Cheers!

 

[nothingman]

Just want to say I don’t understand why MiniDSP doesn’t offer a product (or optional mode within a product like the SHD) that serves as a line-level DAC/streamer/Dirac-corrected source, like every other DAC/streamer box on the market. It would be simpler and cheaper to deliver, right? Like others have said, the SHD isn’t really full-featured preamp, and many people in the market for DAC/streamer/room correction already have preamps. If the SHD was exactly the same shape and price as it is now with all the same I/O and streaming services but acted as a source I would buy it immediately. That goes for the analog too. I‘d like to try running my turntable through it as long as the SHD simply performs ADC > Dirac > DAC at unity gain into my preamp.

(Yes I’ve said this MiniDSP via email but thought I’d say it out loud.)

 

[carlob]

Just want to say I don’t understand why MiniDSP doesn’t offer a product (or optional mode within a product like the SHD) that serves as a line-level DAC/streamer/Dirac-corrected source, like every other DAC/streamer box on the market. It would be simpler and cheaper to deliver, right? Like others have said, the SHD isn’t really full-featured preamp, and many people in the market for DAC/streamer/room correction already have preamps. If the SHD was exactly the same shape and price as it is now with all the same I/O and streaming services but acted as a source I would buy it immediately. That goes for the analog too. I‘d like to try running my turntable through it as long as the SHD simply performs ADC > Dirac > DAC at unity gain into my preamp.

(Yes I’ve said this MiniDSP via email but thought I’d say it out loud.)

Not sure I understand what you mean for "acting as a source". I have the SHD connected to a preamp and my turntable connected to a pre-phono and in turn to the SHD.

 

[nothingman]

Not sure I understand what you mean for "acting as a source". I have the SHD connected to a preamp and my turntable connected to a pre-phono and in turn to the SHD.

Hi, thanks for replying, I mean the SHD is sold as a preamp device, not a source. Source components don’t have volume control or connect directly to your power amp, and you don’t connect phono stage output to a source component. Those are the job of a preamp.

There should either be a separate device or a mode within the SHD that produces line-level output from the DAC or passes through analog from line-level devices like a phono preamp output at the same gain. This would remove considerable circuitry and gain from the path and make a lot more sense for people looking add DAC/streamer/Dirac to an existing system. The DSP could easily manage consistent line-level output across all the sources without any clipping and without any volume control enabled. [edit=typo]

 

[carlob]

Hi, thanks for replying, I mean the SHD is sold as a preamp device, not a source. Source components don’t have volume control or connect directly to your power amp, and you don’t connect phono stage output to a source component. Those are the job of a preamp.

There should either be a separate device or a mode within the SHD that produces line-level output from the DAC or passes through analog from line-level devices like a phono preamp output at the same gain. This would remove considerable circuitry and gain from the path and make a lot more sense for people looking add DAC/streamer/Dirac to an existing system. The DSP could easily manage consistent line-level output across all the sources without any clipping and without any volume control enabled. [edit=typo]

You can use it both ways, really don't understand. You can use it as a preamp or you can use it as a"source" as with volume at 0dB it outputs 2V unbalanced and 4V balanced (but you can adjust the levels if you want). I use it exactly that way, the SHD volume is fixed to 0dB (maximum) hooked to a preamp and I use the preamp volume. All my devices (two one cd players, one turntable, my mac mini, home lan) are connected to the SHD so I could just ditch the preamp but I need it for other reasons.

Edit: I have the other cd player connected to the preamp

 

[nothingman]

You can use it both ways, really don't understand. You can use it as a preamp or you can use it as a"source" as with volume at 0dB it outputs 2V unbalanced and 4V balanced (but you can adjust the levels if you want). I use it exactly that way, the SHD volume is fixed to 0dB (maximum) hooked to a preamp and I use the preamp volume. All my devices (two one cd players, one turntable, my mac mini, home lan) are connected to the SHD so I could just ditch the preamp but I need it for other reasons.

Edit: I have the other cd player connected to the preamp

I like hearing that someone is using the device as I hoped to use it, but one thing that seems very concrete via the MiniDSP forums is that the unit output clips at 0dB with Dirac enabled (but not disabled, Dirac needs headroom to push and pull the signal into correction). The other matter is that in no diagram or description does MiniDSP indicate the SHD as anything but a preamp device to connect directly to a power amp and/or subs. Add to that the fact their direct to consumer model is “all sales final” (who even does that anymore?) and I don’t feel comfortable at all using a device outside it’s apparent intended purpose since I’d get no support. I appreciate what you’re saying but to me it all just seems like a screw-up by MiniDSP to not think through how customers want to use a product in a very obvious way.

 

[carlob]

I really don't follow but ok.

 

[nothingman]

And I, in turn, don’t understand what’s so strange about someone being reluctant to buy a piece of equipment designed, built, marketed, and sold as a preamp to use as a source component (especially considering all sales final means I can’t even try it myself). I don’t think you and I are going to have a breakthrough, so I’ll leave it there and no hard feelings from me, but it’s an important, fundamental difference between the SHD and a conventional DAC/streamer.

 

[carlob]

The SHD outputs 2V which is redbook standard so aside for the volume control it is a "source" component exactly like a cd player if you don't want to use it as a preamp. The clipping issue is a non issue if you using it as a "source" since you turn down the output level by a couple of dBs in the SHD and use the gain of your preamp.

Anyways I think you misunderstood: I'm not arguing with you, obviously you are free to get whatever you like, was just explaining you why the distinction between source and preamp in this case makes no technical sense. Obviously is sold as a preamp because it has switchable inputs but it's not that using it as a source component you are breaking any law.

 

[waynel]

Just want to say I don’t understand why MiniDSP doesn’t offer a product (or optional mode within a product like the SHD) that serves as a line-level DAC/streamer/Dirac-corrected source, like every other DAC/streamer box on the market. It would be simpler and cheaper to deliver, right? Like others have said, the SHD isn’t really full-featured preamp, and many people in the market for DAC/streamer/room correction already have preamps. If the SHD was exactly the same shape and price as it is now with all the same I/O and streaming services but acted as a source I would buy it immediately. That goes for the analog too. I‘d like to try running my turntable through it as long as the SHD simply performs ADC > Dirac > DAC at unity gain into my preamp.

(Yes I’ve said this MiniDSP via email but thought I’d say it out loud.)

Remember that the SHD has 4 outputs, typically for use in a 2.2 system. there are not many preamps that can control volume for 4 channels. Also, the volume control is digital so doesn't add extra hardware/cost and no performance penalty for not using it.

 

[rvsixer]

The other matter is that in no diagram or description does MiniDSP indicate the SHD as anything but a preamp device to connect directly to a power amp and/or subs.

Except that it can obviously be used just like an SHD Studio too .

 

[samysound]

And I, in turn, don’t understand what’s so strange about someone being reluctant to buy a piece of equipment designed, built, marketed, and sold as a preamp to use as a source component (especially considering all sales final means I can’t even try it myself). I don’t think you and I are going to have a breakthrough, so I’ll leave it there and no hard feelings from me, but it’s an important, fundamental difference between the SHD and a conventional DAC/streamer.

Hi,
I think deercreekaudio.com has a 30 day return policy and are an AD for miniDSP products.

 

[mikeburns]

This is a weird path the discussion has taken. The SHD is a preamp. It is also a streamer. It is also a DSP. It is all these things. Use it however you feel. Streamer source, preamp, simple dsp for your system that is transparent and colourless. It works well for all these applications. Except for wifi based streaming. That it truly sucks at =(

 

[dwkdnvr]

Yeah, even after re-reading I'm not really sure I understand the use-case nothingman is trying to achieve, mostly since the idea of limiting crossover/eq or Dirac functionality to only streaming content and not all stereo content in the system doesn't make a lot of sense to me. My inference is that he has an existing analog preamp that he wants to keep, likely with a vinyl setup, and wants to add the SHD but is hesitant to run the analog pre out into the analog input of the SHD fearing degradation due to the A/D process. If this is correct, then I guess I can understand the frustration at the lack of a return policy since he can't eval the A/D performance before committing.

Having said that, if the goal is to add Dirac (or even any other packaged room correction solution) to an existing analog setup, I'm not aware of a better product than the SHD. If you're willing to go it alone with REW or similar, you can certainly come up with studio products that have better A/D and D/A performance than the SHD on paper, but nothing with the degree of integration.

The SHD isn't perfect, and so might not be right for him, but the criticisms I can more easily understand are
a) relative lack of inputs might require external switching capability
b) no HT bypass mode for integrating into a multi-channel setup ; (solvable with a 2nd preset and external switching, but inconvenient)
c) built-in volumio isn't a great streaming platform (and I still haven't looked into running a different stack on the built-in PI)

 

[Willem]

Indeed: what is the setup?

 

[rvsixer]

SHD uses the AK5574 for ADC. So assuming miniDSP hasn't totally botched the implementation (maybe (hoping) the same talented designer that did the DAC portion also did the ADC section), should be very adequate (full differential, SN 121+dB, S/(N+D)=112 dB, etc.).
Wish this would have gotten tested.

HT bypass can be done by external switching alone, bypassing the SHD completely. Said switching can be implemented via mini-relays, taking away the drudgery of having to get off the couch once in a while. Both covered here previously.

 

[nothingman]

Yeah, even after re-reading I'm not really sure I understand the use-case nothingman is trying to achieve, mostly since the idea of limiting crossover/eq or Dirac functionality to only streaming content and not all stereo content in the system doesn't make a lot of sense to me. My inference is that he has an existing analog preamp that he wants to keep, likely with a vinyl setup, and wants to add the SHD but is hesitant to run the analog pre out into the analog input of the SHD fearing degradation due to the A/D process. If this is correct, then I guess I can understand the frustration at the lack of a return policy since he can't eval the A/D performance before committing.

Having said that, if the goal is to add Dirac (or even any other packaged room correction solution) to an existing analog setup, I'm not aware of a better product than the SHD. If you're willing to go it alone with REW or similar, you can certainly come up with studio products that have better A/D and D/A performance than the SHD on paper, but nothing with the degree of integration.

The SHD isn't perfect, and so might not be right for him, but the criticisms I can more easily understand are
a) relative lack of inputs might require external switching capability
b) no HT bypass mode for integrating into a multi-channel setup ; (solvable with a 2nd preset and external switching, but inconvenient)
c) built-in volumio isn't a great streaming platform (and I still haven't looked into running a different stack on the built-in PI)

You basically have it right. I was having trouble understanding the product and how it fits into my existing setup and whether adding Dirac to my system was possible at the source point, or whether the SHD really needed to be connected to my power amp. I have some quibbles about some of the livability features, but overall I understand what’s possible and what it’s offering.

This is a weird path the discussion has taken. The SHD is a preamp. It is also a streamer. It is also a DSP. It is all these things. Use it however you feel. Streamer source, preamp, simple dsp for your system that is transparent and colourless. It works well for all these applications. Except for wifi based streaming. That it truly sucks at =(

Hold on—it’s a physical impossibility for me to run an ethernet cable into the unit. Does the wifi adapter have peformance issues? I haven’t seen that in my reading yet, sorry if it’s been mentioned in this thread elsewhere.

 

[waynel]

You basically have it right. I was having trouble understanding the product and how it fits into my existing setup and whether adding Dirac to my system was possible at the source point, or whether the SHD really needed to be connected to my power amp. I have some quibbles about some of the livability features, but overall I understand what’s possible and what it’s offering.



Hold on—it’s a physical impossibility for me to run an ethernet cable into the unit. Does the wifi adapter have peformance issues? I haven’t seen that in my reading yet, sorry if it’s been mentioned in this thread elsewhere.

I use a google/nest mesh wifi network and plug each of my hifi streaming devices into a google wifi device. I recommend trying this.

 

[Alexanderc]

$30 for this (there’s an Ethernet connection on the bottom for connecting wired devices):
https://www.cnet.com/news/best-wifi-range-extender-for-just-about-everyone-2020/