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Review and Measurements of Little Dot MK III Tube Headphone Amplifier

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amirm

amirm

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OTOH, would you buy a little SD card audio player for a quick review? After all it's less than a hundred... and it seems very nice :cool:
I could not believe my eyes when I stumbled upon this one! See:
https://www.lessloss.com/laminar-streamer-sd-player-p-207.html
Less than $100? It is less than $100,000:

1561500746615.png
 

GioF71

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Sorry for this, I did not consider the risk that someone could be tempted to actually buy this item. I deeply apologise.
 

garbulky

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@amirm I have to commend you sir for a balanced review! It's unfortunate that the Littledot gear misses its distortion spec.

(From amazon)
THD+N: 0.15% (80 mW @300 ohm)
Power Output:
350 mW @ 300/600 ohm
300 mW @ 120 ohm
100 mW @ 32 ohm
It's THD stays above 0.1% for most of its operation which is a good bit more than 0.15% quoted. Also though it has a healthy power output at 350 mw, man, it's not close to the 350 mw quoted in your tests. This is a real problem. It sounds to me like blatant lying by the manufacturer . And I'm seeing this all the time even in gear that measures very well. Inflated power specs! It's not right and I appreciate you doing it because it shows the world that there's falsehoods being advertised.

Regarding performance:
The Little dot spurious tones do intrude into potentially audible territory coming in at -55db.
But I appreciate the listening tests you did. You discovered that the audible impact was barely noticeable. Quite surprising to me honestly as I thought that would be significantly noticeable in music listening. This sort of combination of measurements and listening tests help people like me understand what kind of impacts measurements put out in real world music listening.

The Little dot measures rather poorly imo
index.php

with distortion spikes at -55 db
vs the JDS atom
index.php

with distortion spikes at -118 db (!!) - 63 db lower distortion!

Even at these high distortion values the audible impact in music listening appears to be seemingly very low.
I hope you continue to perform as many listening tests as you have time for so we can get a better idea of how measurements correlate to music listening.

To be honest, I am hesitant though, for me those distortion spikes and snr are simply too bad. I would probably bias myself in to disliking it if I ever purchased it simply because I know its real measurements.

Having said that, I once had my heart set on buying the Little Dot mk8. Whatta looker!

62114.jpg
 

garbulky

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It seems that we have reached sufficient transparency in amps that we can't distinguish "extremely" noisy amps from reference amps unless actively listening for differences, and even then the differences are small.

Maybe it's not such a bad idea to buy the cheapest, prettiest amp
If it sounds as good as the best, why not. But to be honest, I wouldn't mind spending more just to get some good ergonomics, great looks and overbuilt build quality. I like that kind of thing.
 
Last edited:

AndrovichIV

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I have to say I was expecting a very different conclusion, but I see your point. I'm quite happy now with a THX 789, but those Little Dots have had my attention for long. Not anymore.. the channel imbalance alone would probably drive me crazy.

OTOH, would you buy a little SD card audio player for a quick review? After all it's less than a hundred... and it seems very nice :cool:
I could not believe my eyes when I stumbled upon this one! See:
https://www.lessloss.com/laminar-streamer-sd-player-p-207.html

EDIT: that was a silly joke. That thing costs 91.181$ (yes more that ninety one thousand us dollars)

\Quote

The all-new Laminar Streamer finally solves the problem of digital audio harshness by using only a single clock source for the formation of the pristine digital audio stream. Although the device plays .wav and .aiff files off of SD cards, LessLoss did not incorporate the use of Windows, MAC OS, or Linux for its operating system. Instead, from ground up, a dedicated audiophile operating system was built, streamlined for the specialized task of serving the topmost quality data while avoiding jitter. Unlike any other computer audio playback system, the Laminar Streamer's operating system runs synchronously at the audio sampling rate via the very same high quality audio clock used for the formation of the audio data stream. Thus, a new level of quality is achieved in digital playback, previously unattainable due to the inherent complexity of running an OS clock and an audio clock separately. The intricacies of asynchronous re-clocking, buffering, and jitter reduction have been solved at their very source, a world first for digital audio!

\end Quote

Soooo, these guys wrote an OS from scratch. Mmmmmm sounds fishy
 
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amirm

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Having said that, I once had my heart set on buying the Little Dot mk8. Whatta looker!

62114.jpg
Wow, that is really pretty! Didn't know they had such a unit.
 

MetalheadRich

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Is it even possible to design a good measuring tube amplifier? I am just wondering if the "warm" sound signature comes just from high distortion. A comparison with the Loxjie P20 would be quite nice.

Any type of tube amp? Certainly. McIntosh can do it.
 

cjfrbw

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I bought one of these on ebay as a general purpose gain stage and HP amp. They can be 'hot rodded' in various ways with tubes, so rolling fun for tube perverts. I upgraded input tubes with 6hm5 Yugoslavian triode, and use adapters to use 6sn7 tubes as outputs.

I got the Little Dot Mk. III for less than a hundred bucks used, with a bit of extra investment for the tubes. They have sliders on the bottom to adjust the gain. I gather that if you use the lowest gain you get better sound quality, but, of course, lower gain.

Presently, it is in use as a computer headphone amp. I find it most pleasant to listen to due to whatever subjective atrocities it commits. I would have expected it to measure like dog's breakfast. At the price I paid, with the pleasant listening and nice appearance, it was money I don't regret parting with.
 

Azeia

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Wow, that is really pretty! Didn't know they had such a unit.
The black one looks pretty amazing too:
6947487.jpg

(I don't know why it says VI+, since the VI+ normally doesn't have the 1/4-inch jack on the front. In any case, the black version of the VIII should look the same, more or less.)

I was really looking forward to the review for the MK III though; it's a shame it didn't perform super well in the measurements, but maybe this is just the way it is for tube amps. I may get one anyways for the aesthetics, which is what attracted me to it in the first place. It should work well with my DT 990 250 Ohm headphones. =)

They have sliders on the bottom to adjust the gain. I gather that if you use the lowest gain you get better sound quality, but, of course, lower gain.
Ah, yeah, that's a good point actually, I wonder what gain settings Amir was using. Here's a screenshot of the instruction guide from their forum (littledot.net):
Screenshot_2019-06-25 Little Dot MK III Reference Guide docx.png

And a pic I found of where they are, towards the front on the bottom:
3644010.png

Also, they claim that you can get this thing for 245 usd if you order directly from them, although I'm not sure if it'd be worth it, since you'd probably end up paying customs anyways when it arrives or something. =\
 

rkeman

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I just do not get why all the "High-End" headphones come with a tube amplifier paired. (Shangri-La, Oprheus, Stax etc.) A solid state amplifier should always be superior to a tube one, so why a tube amplifier?

Stax amplifiers use the high voltage tubes can handle to drive the electrostatic elements without output transformers. This is a substantial advantage and saves a lot of cost and weight.
 

Shadow12347

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I have to admit tube amps do look really nice... I guess that's why people are naturally drawn to them. I've heard a lot of people rave about the Bottlehead Crack Amp. Seems like a fun project.
 

Azeia

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I have to admit tube amps do look really nice... I guess that's why people are naturally drawn to them. I've heard a lot of people rave about the Bottlehead Crack Amp. Seems like a fun project.
I've seen this kit before, but considering it's bulky size and price, and that you have to put it together yourself, I don't see the point given that the Little Dot MK III for instance is cheaper and comes pre-assembled. If I was to put it together myself I would expect to save some money compared to a pre-assembled unit.

The large size for a headphone amp is another downside, and it only appears to have one power and one driver tube for both channels, instead of the total of four tubes you get on the Little Dot; given that aesthetics (glowing tubes) are one of the draws of tube amps, having the minimum arrangement of two (power+driver) per channel looks better if you ask me, at least on a device of this size, if it was smaller that would be a different matter.
 

CRKebschull

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I have to say I was expecting a very different conclusion, but I see your point. I'm quite happy now with a THX 789, but those Little Dots have had my attention for long. Not anymore.. the channel imbalance alone would probably drive me crazy.

OTOH, would you buy a little SD card audio player for a quick review? After all it's less than a hundred... and it seems very nice :cool:
I could not believe my eyes when I stumbled upon this one! See:
https://www.lessloss.com/laminar-streamer-sd-player-p-207.html

EDIT: that was a silly joke. That thing costs 91.181$ (yes more that ninety one thousand us dollars)

I found this really fascinating, from their website:

"Although the device plays .wav and .aiff files off of SD cards, LessLoss did not incorporate the use of Windows, MAC OS, or Linux for its operating system. Instead, from ground up, a dedicated audiophile operating system was built, streamlined for the specialized task of serving the topmost quality data while avoiding jitter. Unlike any other computer audio playback system, the Laminar Streamer's operating system runs synchronously at the audio sampling rate via the very same high quality audio clock used for the formation of the audio data stream."

So, they're saying they clock the processor variably, at the frequency of the sample rate of the audio file? The CPU and the OS runs at... 44.1 KHz? or 48 KHz, 192 KHz, etc. ? Wow, how wacky is that?
 

Krunok

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I found this really fascinating, from their website:

"Although the device plays .wav and .aiff files off of SD cards, LessLoss did not incorporate the use of Windows, MAC OS, or Linux for its operating system. Instead, from ground up, a dedicated audiophile operating system was built, streamlined for the specialized task of serving the topmost quality data while avoiding jitter. Unlike any other computer audio playback system, the Laminar Streamer's operating system runs synchronously at the audio sampling rate via the very same high quality audio clock used for the formation of the audio data stream."

So, they're saying they clock the processor variably, at the frequency of the sample rate of the audio file? The CPU and the OS runs at... 44.1 KHz? or 48 KHz, 192 KHz, etc. ? Wow, how wacky is that?

Complete BS.. :facepalm:
 

maxxevv

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Since people love the look of tubes glowing, I wonder if one created a (bogus) case with 4 glowing tubes that does nothing other than glow, and then hide a JDS Atom inside, audio output purely from the Atom.

And let people listen to it and then compare it to some high-end tube amps like the Blue Hawaii ...

I wonder how would people subjectively appraise it ? :p
 

PierreV

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JohnYang1997

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I just do not get why all the "High-End" headphones come with a tube amplifier paired. (Shangri-La, Oprheus, Stax etc.) A solid state amplifier should always be superior to a tube one, so why a tube amplifier?
That's a very different situation. They are electrostatic headphones. They need very high voltage swing from amplifier. Sure there are solid-state ones. But inherently there is nothing wrong with using valves in electrostatic amps. The load impedance will be over 100k+, and high operating voltage is one of the key feature of vacuum tubes.
 
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