Review and Measurements of Holo Audio May --- Probably the best discrete R2R DAC

[Miska]

What inconsistent technical behaviour ?

Noise floor modulation issues. Likely one reason being the analog output stage.

 

[aj625]

Noise floor modulation issues. Likely one reason being the analog output stage.

In measurements done by Amir ? I couldn't see.

 

[Miska]

In measurements done by Amir ? I couldn't see.

No, in the measurements I did, but Amir missed...

 

[aj625]

Ok can you please post here ?

No, in the measurements I did, but Amir missed...

 

[Miska]

Ok can you please post here ?

This is wrong thread to discuss D90SE and I already posted elswhere.

 

[aj625]

This is wrong thread to discuss D90SE and I already posted elswhere.

Ok please PM me the link. Thanks !

 

[Dgob]

I am not certain if it's an issue of quality control, but I had various problems with the optical and USB performance on my Topping D90 SE. That led me to buy the Gustard X26 Pro. However, this could not handle timbre and congestion on large orchestral works [for example, Dvorak's Cello concerto, Op. 104, Piatigorsky, Munch, Boston Symphony Orchestra, where detail is difficult to differentiate at climactic moments].

I am now awaiting the arrival of my Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE, without preamp section, which uses the same trickle down technology from the May . I intend to use my Topping Pre90 and Ext90 to control this and my phono preamp. I am really hopeful that I will be able to sell on the Topping and Gustard, but must now wait to see/hear.

Any views/advice/suggestion welcomed, as usual.

 

[YSC]

I am not certain if it's an issue of quality control, but I had various problems with the optical and USB performance on my Topping D90 SE. That led me to buy the Gustard X26 Pro. However, this could not handle timbre and congestion on large orchestral works [for example, Dvorak's Cello concerto, Op. 104, Piatigorsky, Munch, Boston Symphony Orchestra, where detail is difficult to differentiate at climactic moments].

I am now awaiting the arrival of my Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE, without preamp section, which uses the same trickle down technology from the May . I intend to use my Topping Pre90 and Ext90 to control this and my phono preamp. I am really hopeful that I will be able to sell on the Topping and Gustard, but must now wait to see/hear.

Any views/advice/suggestion welcomed, as usual.

Spring 2 user here and very happy. But I remember the pre 90 have a low input impedance while the spring have high output impedance. Might be something to beware

 

[Dgob]

Spring 2 user here and very happy. But I remember the pre 90 have a low input impedance while the spring have high output impedance. Might be something to beware

Many thanks. Do you know if that is the same with the Spring 3, which I am told is quite different?

Also, I have a large record collection and still play vinyl using a Violectric PPA V790. The Topping allows me to run the XLR outputs of the phono preamp, but I am not certain how this could be maintained if I get the Sping 3 KTE with in-built preamp. Any suggestions?

 

[mocenigo]

I am not certain if it's an issue of quality control, but I had various problems with the optical and USB performance on my Topping D90 SE.

What type of performance problems?

 

[Dgob]

What type of performance problems?

Intermittent loss of signal so that you would have quite frequent brief moments of silence.

Bluetooth and Coax were excellent on the D90 SE however (so much so that I found the Gustard unacceptable when playing the same large orchestral pieces). But I found this phenomenon to persist on Optical and USB playback through 'my' Topping..Hence, my uncertainty if the issue was just with my model and therefore related to quality control at Topping

 

[mocenigo]

Intermittent loss of signal so that you would have quite frequent brief moments of silence.

Using a CD transport as source?

Bluetooth and Coax were excellent on the D90 SE however (so much so that I found the Gustard unacceptable when playing the same large orchestral pieces). But I found this phenomenon to persist on Optical and USB playback through 'my' Topping..Hence, my uncertainty if the issue was just with my model and therefore related to quality control at Topping

 

[Dgob]

Using a CD transport as source?

No, I used the coax for my cdp and Optical for my TV.

 

[YSC]

Many thanks. Do you know if that is the same with the Spring 3, which I am told is quite different?

Also, I have a large record collection and still play vinyl using a Violectric PPA V790. The Topping allows me to run the XLR outputs of the phono preamp, but I am not certain how this could be maintained if I get the Sping 3 KTE with in-built preamp. Any suggestions?

from Kitsunehifi website "I/O stages: There is an Op Amp used for input stage and discrete component used for the output stage. The discrete output stage is working in pure class A. The output voltage is 2.9 Vrms for single ended output and 5.8 Vrms for balanced output (dsd playback is half these voltages). The single ended is RCA. Balanced is XLR. They both use the same output stage. It’s BiPolar Junction Transistors, direct coupled. The big MKP capacitor you can see in the output stage is for the power supply, not for signal coupling. And the output impedance is 200 Ohm. " so I believe it's the same, from WolfX's measurement it seems to me the difference between even the original spring and spring 3 is minimal, except that the jitter is present in the 1 and 2 and mostly absent from the 3, the SINAD and FR roll off in NOS mode is mostly the same

 

[Dgob]

from Kitsunehifi website "I/O stages: There is an Op Amp used for input stage and discrete component used for the output stage. The discrete output stage is working in pure class A. The output voltage is 2.9 Vrms for single ended output and 5.8 Vrms for balanced output (dsd playback is half these voltages). The single ended is RCA. Balanced is XLR. They both use the same output stage. It’s BiPolar Junction Transistors, direct coupled. The big MKP capacitor you can see in the output stage is for the power supply, not for signal coupling. And the output impedance is 200 Ohm. " so I believe it's the same, from WolfX's measurement it seems to me the difference between even the original spring and spring 3 is minimal, except that the jitter is present in the 1 and 2 and mostly absent from the 3, the SINAD and FR roll off in NOS mode is mostly the same

Thanks again,

Does this all mean that my Pre90 will NOT work well with the Spring 3 KTE (sans preamp) model? I cannot afford to step up to using the Holo Audio Serene and still need to play vinyl. Hence, if there is no way around this without buying the Serene, I might have to cancel my order of the Spring 3.

Advice eagerly sought.

 

[YSC]

Thanks again,

Does this all mean that my Pre90 will NOT work well with the Spring 3 KTE (sans preamp) model? I cannot afford to step up to using the Holo Audio Serene and still need to play vinyl. Hence, if there is no way around this without buying the Serene, I might have to cancel my order of the Spring 3.

Advice eagerly sought.

double checked for you: "The Pre90's unbalanced input impedance was 9.9k ohms at 20Hz and 1kHz and 9.6k ohms at 20kHz. The balanced input impedance was low, at 2k ohms from 20Hz to 20kHz"

so it seems if using the spring 2 I would say better use the single ended output, that should not have the impedance issue, for R2R I would really want to stick to the 10x higher input impedance rule

 

[Dgob]

double checked for you: "The Pre90's unbalanced input impedance was 9.9k ohms at 20Hz and 1kHz and 9.6k ohms at 20kHz. The balanced input impedance was low, at 2k ohms from 20Hz to 20kHz"

so it seems if using the spring 2 I would say better use the single ended output, that should not have the impedance issue, for R2R I would really want to stick to the 10x higher input impedance rule

Many thanks again YSC,

Sadly, the Violectric phono amp is massively improved in balanced XLR and that makes the Serene seem all the more attractive. If I might ask, what pre do you use with your Spring 2 or has your model the preamp built in?

 

[Dgob]

I'm tired,

just realised that the issue need not affect my vinyl playback as this would be wholly between the Pre90 and Violectric. The losses would all be around the digital feedback.

 

[YSC]

Many thanks again YSC,

Sadly, the Violectric phono amp is massively improved in balanced XLR and that makes the Serene seem all the more attractive. If I might ask, what pre do you use with your Spring 2 or has your model the preamp built in?

I only listen to digital feed from computer, and I am using a pair of 8030C with a 7040A, which is way too loud with full power directly using the dac out, so I used a Khozmo passive preamp with stepped attenuator, the impedance matching with the 8030C with are 10k ohm and the dac output of spring 2 at 200ohm is not a problem at all

 

[devilboy]

I have a question...

I'm awaiting delivery of my Spring 3 KTE next week. I'm very much looking forward to using this DAC and bought it specifically for its supposedly fantastic USB input. I planned on selling my DDC as I heard it was not needed because the USB input was so good.

I know that the output via balanced XLR is 5.8 volts and that's how I was planning on using it into my Luxman p-750u headphone amp. However, people are talking on another forum that the 5.8 volt balanced output will be too much and overload the input. My current DAC outputs 4 volts via XLR and I never had an issue. Will 5.8 volts really be too much?
I don't understand this because why would Holo design a DAC that has a 5.8 volt output if it's too much? A lot of preamps have 7,8 or 9 volt output going into amps but for some reason 5.8 volts will be too much into a headphone amplifier? This isn't making sense to me.

Can anyone offer some insight please as to the output voltage being too high? If it was an issue, why would they design it that way?

Thanks.