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Review and Measurements of Grace Design Balanced DAC

FireLion

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No. There's a huge and common misunderstanding about what "balanced" means. Balanced circuits are those that have equal impedances on both legs. So I could make a balanced DAC with one chip driving one leg and the other leg connected to a resistor with the same value as the first leg's source impedance.

Many people confuse balanced outputs with differential outputs. A differential circuit may or may not be balanced, a balanced circuit may or may not be differential. The only thing that matters is equal impedances to achieve the noise rejection of balanced operation.

Aren't some DAC's capable of it and others not, I wonder what the spec sheet for the chip used says?

According to the specs it has 8 channels and I think you need a minimum of 6 to have fully balanced capability?
https://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/datasheet1/?partno=AK4452VN
 

daftcombo

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Both input & output are via XLRs ...

I just ordered one because it's cheap (35$ for a passive pre-amp) and seems handy.

It does go fully balanced only when fed by XLR and going out to XLR right? otherwise the balance is lost?
Sorry for my ignorance of so simple things.
 

FireLion

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I just ordered one because it's cheap (35$ for a passive pre-amp) and seems handy.

It does go fully balanced only when fed by XLR and going out to XLR right? otherwise the balance is lost?
Sorry for my ignorance of so simple things.

I am still unclear myself if I am honest. Seems to be a lot of double duch being spouted and then some saying it's not. I'd also like clarification on it as I need fully balanced DAC to complete my chain of XLR's!
https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-grace-design-standard-dac-balanced/talk?search=true
 

SIY

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Aren't some DAC's capable of it and others not, I wonder what the spec sheet for the chip used says?

According to the specs it has 8 channels and I think you need a minimum of 6 to have fully balanced capability?
https://www.akm.com/akm/en/product/datasheet1/?partno=AK4452VN

No, if "balanced" is being used in the technical sense. A single channel can be balanced. 8 channels can each be balanced. 32 channels can each... well, you get the idea!

In a marketing sense, who knows, it could mean anything.
 

Nango

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Open the case. If you have 4 wires connected to each XLR output, then prob is high it is fully balanced. If you only see 2 or 3 each plug, it is NOT fully balanced, only plugs are XLR, not the circuitery.
 

Svperstar

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I am currently using the original SDAC which replaced my Modi Multibit(still need to sell this its gathering dust). I'm wondering if they improved the performance at all in non-balanced configuration over the original SDAC.
 

daftcombo

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Open the case. If you have 4 wires connected to each XLR output, then prob is high it is fully balanced. If you only see 2 or 3 each plug, it is NOT fully balanced, only plugs are XLR, not the circuitery.

The inside should be as in the Audiophonics one:
1564411673872.png
 

Grattle

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Glad to see this product put on the scope.
 

EReich

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Unfortunately, no. If you only use the XLR input on the 789, then you will not be able to use the SE line out. In other words, the SE line out will only output whatever is being fed to the SE input.

Just for curiosity's sake, though, I used both the balanced and unbalanced outputs from the SDAC Balanced, and fed both right into the 789. I confirmed I was able to get the same signal on the 789, playing simultaneously, with just a flick of the input switch in front. (Of course, the obvious difference, being the ~6 dB gain between the two inputs.) Also, since the unbalanced connection was present, naturally, the SE line out continued to work, feeding my STAX amp - regardless of which input was actively being used through the 789 itself.

While I wouldn't necessarily recommend such a convoluted setup to anyone (because you might as well feed the unbalanced signal from the SDAC-B directly to the Atom instead), but the concept does work - I just can't think of any use case to support its existence.
And here I am under the impression that I can just use my D50 to feed my upcoming 789 with SE and be able to use the balanced out just for more power.. Now I'm thinking of canceling the order since it will prompt me to spend more for another balanced DAC -_-
 

daftcombo

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And here I am under the impression that I can just use my D50 to feed my upcoming 789 with SE and be able to use the balanced out just for more power.. Now I'm thinking of canceling the order since it will prompt me to spend more for another balanced DAC -_-

If you don't hear any hum, you can stick to RCA and there's no reason to buy another DAC than the D50.
 

EReich

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If you don't hear any hum, you can stick to RCA and there's no reason to buy another DAC than the D50.
Well right now I'm just using the D50/Atom stack.. And I don't hear any hum at all..

As far as what I've read here so far, benefits of having balanced is eliminating unwanted noise and deliver higher clean voltage to headphones..
So people claiming that they get better "Sound Quality"with balanced input / output on the 789 is just stating possible placebo effects?
 

daftcombo

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Well right now I'm just using the D50/Atom stack.. And I don't hear any hum at all..

As far as what I've read here so far, benefits of having balanced is eliminating unwanted noise and deliver higher clean voltage to headphones..
So people claiming that they get better "Sound Quality"with balanced input / output on the 789 is just stating possible placebo effects?

Absolutely.
One day, like me, you'll change the settings of your DAC and think that the sound is well improved. Then, coming back to your PC, you'll realize that you forgot to validate the modifications. And you have your first lesson.
 
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amirm

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I am currently using the original SDAC which replaced my Modi Multibit(still need to sell this its gathering dust). I'm wondering if they improved the performance at all in non-balanced configuration over the original SDAC.
I am getting an original sdac to compare....
 

covertash

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And here I am under the impression that I can just use my D50 to feed my upcoming 789 with SE and be able to use the balanced out just for more power.. Now I'm thinking of canceling the order since it will prompt me to spend more for another balanced DAC -_-

Honestly, unless you are driving some ridiculously inefficient headphones, a good SE DAC will work just fine with the 789. Especially in the case of highly efficient headphones, you get more usable volume adjustment going with SE anyway.
 
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AresHarvest

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And here I am under the impression that I can just use my D50 to feed my upcoming 789 with SE and be able to use the balanced out just for more power..

You certainly CAN do that. The balanced output functions as advertised even if your source is feeding the SE inputs.
 
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amirm

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ExpertNoob

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As long as you're using decent quality RCA cables you shouldn't get any hum whatsoever, correct?
 
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