Review and Measurements of Empirical Audio Synchro-Mesh

[March Audio]

Perhaps Steve may consider using an ASRC like the one I suggested in the synchro-mesh thread? Considering the per unit (chip) costs are the same and there is >30dB to be had, it may be a good idea.

There could be a case for his synchro-mesh unit, one where audiophiles own older, previously high performing, expensive 32-48KHz standalone 16-18 bit D/As from the RBCD transport/dac era. I can see there may be justification to consider such a device in that situation and I think that should be considered perhaps before a wholesale dismissal.



It should be mentioned and corrected in this context, that Sony, from their very first separate transport/ D/A converter, the CDP-1/DAS-R1, recognized the issue with the possible future use of external D/A converters and designed a synchronized (clock sent to DAC and slaved) connection to the D/A converter. It's certainly not a 'poor design decision'.

See picture below:

View attachment 23748



Twin PLLs used by other manufacturers, along with much improved transports, FIFO buffering and more robust CIRC implementations meant 'slaved' connections were deemed unnecessary.

What the originators could not foresee, was the endless, and in my opinion, futile obsession with ever increasing sample rates and bit depths.

I have to agree with Amir on this one. Whilst a range of manufacturers implemented separate clock mechanisms to feed back to the transport (my old Tag Mclaren kit did) and improved PLL mechanisms and ASRC have essentially solved the problem, it was still a fundamentally bad decision to use an embedded transport sourced clock for the DAC chip. Sample rates arent really relevant to this point.

 

[MZKM]

As requested, here are the results for two other DACs.

First, Schiit Modi 3 ($99):
View attachment 23745

Same results as Modi 2 Uber. It seems Schiit didn't fix anything in the S/PDIF interface.

Here is Topping DX7s ($500):
View attachment 23746

DX7s has far superior jitter rejection as compared to Schiit Modi 3. As a result, the Synchro-Mesh doesn't nothing here.

Awesome, thanks!

Is it possible to (or have you already) measure the DX7s with your current analyzer? Because the Modi 3’s J-Test wasn’t terrible looking (was this with the +/-250Hz tone?):

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we could use the "CD Opt" (whatever that means). It has similarly good performance and never loses lock until the maximum amount of jitter we can simulate. This would be a very good choice with ultra long cables.

Stands for CD Optimized. From the manual:

CDT Opt. mode is a mode for optimizing the reception of coaxial or AES signals output from the CD player to ensure that the X26 can stably lock such digital input signals. It is also a high-precision mode. In this mode, the highest acceptable sampling rate for coaxial or AES is 192 kHz.

 

[Shadrach]

Interesting. A competent product that does an unnecessary job. A lesson in the pitfalls of obsession which most of us could do with.
I can't help finding the fact that this product is a very expensive solution for a badly performing DAC rather than a cheap solution to enhance the performance of a hi end audio system slightly amusing, given Empirical Audio's concerns that peoples systems may not be good enough to hear a difference.

 

[MZKM]

I can't help finding the fact that this product is a very expensive solution for a badly performing DAC

Steve also sells a USB convertor that is almost 2x the price that should also have better jitter reduction. Seems like a odd business move to have a product that only reduces jitter that performs worse than your other product that converts one digital connection to another, that just happens to do the other products only purpose better.

 

[Shadrach]

Steve also sells a USB convertor that is almost 2x the price that should also have better jitter reduction. Seems like a odd business move to have a product that only reduces jitter that performs worse than a device that converts one digital connection to another, that just happens to do the other products only purpose better.

I think it's a terribly easy thing to do. I did it myself when I built a music server. I spent weeks obsessing over MOB's, power supplies, cooling and spent a considerable amount of money in the process. It wasn't until some friends and I did an ABX session with a pi and a properly configured laptop that I had to come to terms with the fact that I just couldn't tell the difference. What the music server did do well was it had the processor power to handle decoding better and over USB, supplied a decent constant voltage, something some USB configurations have problems with. Imo this is one of the great things about ASR; the measurements allow you to make a more informed choice.

 

[FrantzM]

I think it's a terribly easy thing to do. I did it myself when I built a music server. I spent weeks obsessing over MOB's, power supplies, cooling and spent a considerable amount of money in the process. It wasn't until some friends and I did an ABX session with a pi and a properly configured laptop that I had to come to terms with the fact that I just couldn't tell the difference. What the music server did do well was it had the processor power to handle decoding better and over USB, supplied a decent constant voltage, something some USB configurations have problems with. Imo this is one of the great things about ASR; the measurements allow you to make a more informed choice.

Same here. The other “server” wasn’t a Pi but my work laptop with a ton of programs in it. No difference with the patiently built and sourced “server”. Perhaps music cutting off abruptly or skipping some if I opened some programs (MSoft Visio in particular)

 

[anmpr1]

There are two kinds of reviews. Those by the few, such as amirm, which are clear and precise, telling you what you need to know, and the bulk of others on the Net which are nonsensical and, frankly, embarrasing. I never heard of this device, before, but this review clarifies things nicely. Contrast it with what I found after a search--a guy named Darko 'reviewed' this device. My guess is that he is serious, and actually believes what he wrote, however I will suspend judgement about his intent, because maybe he is just making a joke:

"...the Synchro-Mesh does more than turn up the resolving power of the DAC. It cleaves more space between stage players and loses several spoonfuls of tension. Reproduction with the intervening Synchro-Mesh appears more effortless. In my experience musical suppleness, elasticity and microdynamic startle factor are all reliable indicators of jitter reduction."

 

[bennetng]

"...the Synchro-Mesh does more than turn up the resolving power of the DAC. It cleaves more space between stage players and loses several spoonfuls of tension. Reproduction with the intervening Synchro-Mesh appears more effortless. In my experience musical suppleness, elasticity and microdynamic startle factor are all reliable indicators of jitter reduction."

Typical 6morons.

 

[anmpr1]

Thank you @amirm . I always thought syncro-mesh was something to keep the gears on a manual transmission from grinding. Pretty soon there will not be anymore of those left to drive.

Not a bad analogy. Yes. Using this device with something like the Modi to improve it, would be like modding the transmission of my erstwhile MG Midget, in which first gear was not synchronized. Sure, you'd have a better transmission, but the overall car would still be the same piece of junk.

 

[graz_lag]

... Using this device with something like the Modi to improve it ...

Realistically, just an insane would invest $700 upgrading the infeed section of a $150 DAC, Modi or whatever Schiit ...

@restorer-john's comment seems very appropriate : 'There could be a case for his synchro-mesh unit, one where audiophiles own older, previously high performing, expensive 32-48KHz standalone 16-18 bit D/As from the RBCD transport/dac era. I can see there may be justification to consider such a device in that situation and I think that should be considered perhaps before a wholesale dismissal.'

 

[SIY]

Realistically, just an insane would invest $700 upgrading the infeed section of a $150 DAC, Modi or whatever Schiit ...

Given that essentially perfect jitter performance is available in cheap engineered DACs (see, for example my and Amir's measurements of the Behringers), one can achieve the same performance upgrade by purchasing myrtle wood cable lifters.

Then again, my hearing is insufficient to detect the clear differences between FLAC and WAV or between two files that are identical except for a 200 sample offset.

 

[mansr]

Is this what you are asking about? This is digital end to end with jitter amount changed:

View attachment 23747

This is with 12 kHz tone so that it is easier to understand. But has dither so noise floor is higher than my review measurements.

That's what I was looking for. Thanks.

Could you also test the frequency response when resampling from other rates to 96 kHz?

 

[JBNY]

I own the Syncro-mesh and have had it for a number of years.. I bought it to use and still use it to re-clock the signal from my Sonos ZP80 (now called Connect). Stereophile did some measurements on the ZP80 years ago and showed a fair amount of jitter. Seeing as there is no alternative to the Sonos product if you want to use Sonos in your system for me it seemed to be a good solution to reducing the jitter that comes from the Sonos into my DAC.

Here is the jitter plot from Stereophile.

Taken from Sonos ZP80 & ZP100 WiFi Music System Measurements

So it looks like it does what it is supposed to do. Hopefully can take these measurements from Amir and translate them to mean the jitter from the sonos being reduced to practically nothing before it goes to my DAC, so a win in my situation.

 

[graz_lag]

... Then again, my hearing is insufficient to detect the clear differences between FLAC and WAV or between two files that are identical except for a 200 sample offset.

 

[SIY]

@JBNY Instead of a Band-Aid, why not just buy a competent DAC for a whole lot less money?

 

[watchnerd]

microdynamic startle factor

Microdynamic Startle Factor is the name of my new electronica band.

 

[watchnerd]

Realistically, just an insane would invest $700 upgrading the infeed section of a $150 DAC, Modi or whatever Schiit ...

Given that essentially perfect jitter performance is available in cheap engineered DACs (see, for example my and Amir's measurements of the Behringers), one can achieve the same performance upgrade by purchasing myrtle wood cable lifters.

You guys are forgetting that the people who think R2R is the best don't want to buy cheap but good DACs because they use Delta Sigma.

 

[JBNY]

@JBNY Instead of a Band-Aid, why not just buy a competent DAC for a whole lot less money?

I guess the idea a few years ago was to give the DAC as little jitter as possible first. Now over the years I've got a bunch of DACs which measure almost perfect, but since I already have the SM, it is just easier to keep it in the system. But I agree it's usefulness now is not nearly as much as it was years ago.

 

[svart-hvitt]

What does this test and review tell us about Mutec Ref 10, Grimm and Antelope?

 

[yummy]

analog PLL raises noise floor, that's physics

those who talking about USB endlessly like some barbie need to read my thread

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...usb-is-actually-synchronous-isochronous.3842/