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Review and Measurements of E1DA 9038S BAL Portable DAC & Amp

MC_RME

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Oh, I tested the soft-start feature right now and even my Android starts normally only one time of 10 tries. I using P-mosfet 50mOhm with 10ohm in parallel i.e. no way for inrush >500mA is possible. Anyway, I see only about 1v at VB rail of USB in 90% of tries. As all of us know iOS USB currents even lower, I can't read USB flash with my iPad without Y-splitter, which Apple calls "Camera adapter".

I don't know the max current one can get from the lightning port. Might be only around 100 mA. But that doesn't disqualify your circuit. There are tons of small headamps for phones/tablets that have a small, thin LiPo battery inside. It should be easy to add such, making your product just a bit thicker. The USB/Lightning port can still be used as power source by current limiting, to support the battery in low level situations, and/or for charging.
 
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MC_RME

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This applies to me too, but I'm wondering about the connections. Is there a reliable Lightning-to-USB-C adapter/cable, or will we need to use the rather pricey Apple Camera Adapter and then a USB-to-USB-C adapter?

Good question. I hope not...
 

Alex-D

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The cable is surely available - the same one you can connect your iPhone to a new macbook with.
(Might be tricky/impossible to find a short one thought.)

Will it work is the main question.
 

AudioSceptic

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The cable is surely available - the same one you can connect your iPhone to a new macbook with.
(Might be tricky/impossible to find a short one thought.)

Will it work is the main question.
The latest iPhones still come with a Lightning-to-USB-A cable. USB-C Macs come with a USB-C charge cable. It turns out there is an Apple USB-C-to-Lightning cable, but it's a $19 extra and, as you say, will it work with other devices?
 

Alex-D

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The latest iPhones still come with a Lightning-to-USB-A cable. USB-C Macs come with a USB-C charge cable. It turns out there is an Apple USB-C-to-Lightning cable, but it's a $19 extra and, as you say, will it work with other devices?

The cable is extra, yes. My point is that it already exists and it will carry required signal if IPhone itself is willing to cooperate.

Just need to find out if it works with _any_ DACs to begin, if yes then maybe it will work here as well.
 

IVX

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And finally, #9038D starting no problem form my 3 years old Android, even with about 4500uF onboard! The current limit there is way lower USB2 standard 500mA, probably about 300mA or so. That fact perhaps makes useless handy USB "switches" like TPS2051 because of 80mOhm P-Mosfet inside and 1-1.5A limit, the same time, continuous current rating as low as 500mA. I using 50mOhm P-Mosfet and any R in parallel to it to fit 9038D inrush current to the Android's current ability. My Android turning on USB 5V rail just for 1mS and Off if the limit is reached.
 

AudioSceptic

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The cable is extra, yes. My point is that it already exists and it will carry required signal if IPhone itself is willing to cooperate.

Just need to find out if it works with _any_ DACs to begin, if yes then maybe it will work here as well.
There's only one way to be sure, but I have a feeling it won't, for the same reason the Camera Adapter exists and is required for other DACs with old-style USB ports.
 

Labjr

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No DSD for a few reasons:

1) I don't like the idea to add 2 ugly buttons for volume control

2) XU208 which I tried in my proto is quite costly for my price range, CM6642 5x times cheaper, 5x6mm and needs just 3 surrounding 0402 parts.

3) Almost nobody needs DSD seriously but only like a feature in the feature list. Seems our little friends marketing-guy realized that and offered lossy-BS MQA for the same role. I already got a few requests for future about MQA hardware supporting, and I ask too - do you need mp3, AAC, APTx HW-decoder as well? ))

4) If I got level#9 in the Harman's "How to listen" and hear no difference DSD vs DSD2PCM, who can objectively hear it, cats, aliens?
Who loves music quite happy with PCM 24/192, and can't hear the difference vs 16/44.1.

I can understand your reasons for not having DSD on your product. However, sometimes the best available version of an album is available on DSD. I have some DSD files and think they sound better when not converted to PCM. To me, any transcoding only makes the quality worse. And I do listen to DSD at home. But DSD decoding is not absolutely necessary for portable use.
 

infinitesymphony

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@IVX When your designs are finalized what is the estimated lead time from start of production to shipping date? Will you use a distributor? Curious to see what the final costs will be.
 

Veri

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@IVX When your designs are finalized what is the estimated lead time from start of production to shipping date? Will you use a distributor? Curious to see what the final costs will be.
Right now it is estimated delivered within 2 weeks to USA, from China. Not sure about how big of stock @IVX has right now on the E1DA? Maybe popularity will slow down things :oops:
 

IVX

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Alleluia, 250mA threshold + very slow bypassing that 20ohm resistor, allows start Android and not only, the first time I see my iPad Air 2 starting no problem with something on its USB without Camera adapter! I used tiny Lightning2USB-A adapter, BTW, even USB flash 32GB couldn't work with it, iPad asked for camera adapter )) Interesting that iPad well protect its USB 5V rail and interrupts power if current goes >250mA instantly but silly Android holds 5V on at much higher than this current and may engage crash(phone off and reboot) i.e. Android testing for 250mA only on the USB start-up stage.
 

snip3r77

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This applies to me too, but I'm wondering about the connections. Is there a reliable Lightning-to-USB-C adapter/cable, or will we need to use the rather pricey Apple Camera Adapter and then a USB-to-USB-C adapter?

I'm evaluating to replace my apple dongle( which does it's job damn well ) and also for my laptop use in the office too.
 

sajunky

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And finally, #9038D starting no problem form my 3 years old Android, even with about 4500uF onboard! The current limit there is way lower USB2 standard 500mA, probably about 300mA or so. That fact perhaps makes useless handy USB "switches" like TPS2051 because of 80mOhm P-Mosfet inside and 1-1.5A limit, the same time, continuous current rating as low as 500mA. I using 50mOhm P-Mosfet and any R in parallel to it to fit 9038D inrush current to the Android's current ability. My Android turning on USB 5V rail just for 1mS and Off if the limit is reached.
Actually unconfigured USB devices are only allowed to draw 1 unit of power according to the USB specification. The unit is 100mA for USB 2.0 or 150mA for USB 3.0. A properly configured USB host may limit current delivery to one unit. In the PC world this specification had been long time ignored, it is why designers tend to forget about.

CM6642 chip is probaly requesting high-power delivery during the USB bus negotiations, but it is obstructed by your additional load and that is bringing USB bus power down. It is why your device is not recognised by the Android device most of the time. I see in your later post that you managed to make it working, but it is just a workaround and may not be working on all devices, you can make it better.

I am not in position to suggest a proper action (I don't design these things anymore), but I think you should obey the maximum 100mA for the power section of CM6642 chip alone (which is responsible for the startup negotiation), then after couple miliseconds delay turn on the main power MOS switch for the remaining devices (try without any current limit first, it may not be needed).

EDIT: The ideal sulution is to invest in a small dedicated HW-reset chip, that would keep all other devices in a low-power state, but the MOS switch will be still needed for the main RC or LC filter, I think.
 
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sajunky

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No DSD for a few reasons:

1) I don't like the idea to add 2 ugly buttons for volume control

2) XU208 which I tried in my proto is quite costly for my price range, CM6642 5x times cheaper, 5x6mm and needs just 3 surrounding 0402 parts.

3) Almost nobody needs DSD seriously but only like a feature in the feature list. Seems our little friends marketing-guy realized that and offered lossy-BS MQA for the same role. I already got a few requests for future about MQA hardware supporting, and I ask too - do you need mp3, AAC, APTx HW-decoder as well? ))

4) If I got level#9 in the Harman's "How to listen" and hear no difference DSD vs DSD2PCM, who can objectively hear it, cats, aliens?
Who loves music quite happy with PCM 24/192, and can't hear the difference vs 16/44.1.
I fully agree with these goals.

BTW, mp3, AAC, aptX do only apply to Bluetooth receivers.
 

IVX

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Well, seems I finished all that I can on that 9038D proto PCB and it's time order next iteration, I hope the last one. I have to add 4th operating mode into MCU named "Home DAC", where ES9038Q2M will be configured similar to "Performance" mode but with THD optimization for 10Kohm load. In that mode, the proto shows THD(not THD+N which AP will show again like .0004%, I've no idea how they calculate that at all) .00014% left and .00018% right channel at -3dbfs. -10dbfs(50% Windows Volume slider) both channels have .00009% i.e 90ppm of THD(attached FFT after notch -40db i.e. .000088%). Not too bad. 32ohm load requires to compensate 2nd harmonics a lot and shows .00021%/.00027% of THD at -3dbfs ie at 170mW(340mW +.5dbfs and THD=1%).
 

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Veri

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I have to add 4th operating mode into MCU named "Home DAC", where ES9038Q2M will be configured similar to "Performance" mode but with THD optimization for 10Kohm load.
Can you explain the use case? Home DAC = for use with external amp for example? :)
(The top graph sure shows impressive lack of distortion!)
 
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Veri

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About "Home DAC" yes, if it is optimized for 10kOhm load, of coarse it suppose to work with some amp.
Haha sorry for the silly question then. OK, got it!
 

bravomail

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I can understand your reasons for not having DSD on your product. However, sometimes the best available version of an album is available on DSD. I have some DSD files and think they sound better when not converted to PCM. To me, any transcoding only makes the quality worse. And I do listen to DSD at home. But DSD decoding is not absolutely necessary for portable use.

Labjr. DSD has been bashed on this forum to no end. It is simply not a good format introduced to circumvent pirates.
 
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