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Review and Measurements of DarkVoice 336SE Headphone Amp

Veri

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Essentially tubes are from a bygone era. I am pretty sure none of them would do well in measurements, unless its purely solid state and the tubes are just for show.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ce-liquid-platinum-headphone-amp-review.7036/

Liquid platinum is the 'best' so far. I think it's vastly overpriced just to get your tube fix but in balanced output power, it actually is on par with the THX AAA before clipping

index.php
 

LuckyLuke575

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Thanks Amir, I own and enjoy the DarkVoice, and I thought your review was very accurate and even-handed.

In some ways the DV is a real pain - about half the 6SN7 types I try give very high levels of hum, even with the volume all the way down! The gain available on this amp is ridiculous; I can’t turn it up more than a quarter of the way. It’s hot. You could fry an egg on it after an hour or two.

But, with my high-impedance Sennheiser 6xx headphones, there is something about the sound quality that’s very attractive to me. Whether it’s the harmonic distortion patterns or any frequency aberrations, the music sounds very much alive and immediate. When I first got my Sennheisers, I was a little disappointed - they sounded a little bland and reserved. The DV has completely addressed all my subjective gripes with them.

This is a science forum, and I’m completely on board with good engineering, reliability, safety and rationality. The DV offers none of that. It’s a ludicrous product. But I’ve enjoyed few audio purchases lately as much as the DV, in the sense that I’m listening to more music, not just through the DarkVoice, and better appreciating it.

It’s like that bad relationship we’ve all had at one time or another. You don’t get fidelity or reliability or reason, and you never know when it’s going to blow up. But when it’s good...

Now I get why I often read that tubes make the HD 6XXs sound great. I suppose there's a nice and powerful sound that comes out. However, if someone really wants a unique sound then I'd argue that electrostatic earphones would give you that on a much higher level in terms of sound quality.
 

Dogen

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I suspect tube rolling may be an expensive hobby with this.

If those are 6AS7G tubes, really not so bad. They’re plentiful at about US$15 each. It’s the smaller octal tubes (6SN7 types?) that have gotten really expensive lately.
 

hvbias

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Oh, and speaking of that book, there’s a superb if somewhat complex tube headphone amp design in it. That’s the way it should be done, ideally.

Up there with the very best audio books I've read!
 

SIY

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If those are 6AS7G tubes, really not so bad. They’re plentiful at about US$15 each. It’s the smaller octal tubes (6SN7 types?) that have gotten really expensive lately.

Hmmm, I may be heading to eBay. I have a bunch of high quality 6SN7 types on my shelf (5692, CV1988...).

The last time I bought 6AS7 types (I think they were 6080), I paid $2 each.
 

SIY

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Up there with the very best audio books I've read!

You have excellent taste. :D Morgan is a very smart guy and a first-rate engineer. We unfortunately have been very bad influences on each other as regards book purchasing.
 

Dogen

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Hmmm, I may be heading to eBay. I have a bunch of high quality 6SN7 types on my shelf (5692, CV1988...).

The last time I bought 6AS7 types (I think they were 6080), I paid $2 each.

It’s insane. Those RCA Red Base 5692s go for 150 or more, although they really aren’t very good electrically in some audio circuits, and certainly sound worse than cheaper tubes (if I could be allowed a subjective opinion). Tung Sol round plates are similarly priced, although they do sound very, very good to my ears. Luckily I picked up pretty much a lifetime supply of these types many years ago for a few dollars at hamfests, before the madness set in.

Do different tube brands sound different? I wouldn’t bet much money on it...but I do have some cheap fun with the question.
 

Dogen

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You have excellent taste. :D Morgan is a very smart guy and a first-rate engineer. We unfortunately have been very bad influences on each other as regards book purchasing.

Is this Valve Amplifiers by Morgan Jones? I think you recommended this book a while back on ASR. One of the best treatments of the subject I’ve ever read. I’m slowly working my way through it to try to get a good foundation in the technology. Very well written. Thanks for the recommendation.
 

SIY

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Do different tube brands sound different? I wouldn’t bet much money on it...but I do have some cheap fun with the question.

It depends on the circuit and, of course, the actual manufacturer of the tubes (as opposed to the brands, which are meaningless). In a good circuit, the differences will be minimal to nonexistent, unless a tube has problems like microphony.

Glad you like Morgan's book. We've been good friends for the past 15 years or so, and my respect for his technical chops, as well as his writing skill, is obviously pretty high.
 

watchnerd

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the only tube headphone amplifier that I would have any interest in:

https://quicksilveraudio.com/products/headphone-amplifier/

notice the output impedance at 2.2 ohms...

Mike Sanders has been making tube products at Quicksilver since 1981. He is a measurement guy and his products have always tested well with JA at Stereophile. In addition, all his designs use point-to-point wiring and Quicksilver designs have become legendary for their reliability and longevity. At $995 I can't afford it but perhaps one of our other members will find it interesting.

Thanks for that tip!

I've been curious to find a tube headphone amp that actually has decently low output impedance.

Yes, the price is 10x that of the JDS Atom Amp, but in the realm of pure, non-hybrid tube amps, it's not that outrageous.
 

watchnerd

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@amirm Let's set up a date to get my Cayin HA-300 to you. You have tested some lower end tube headphone amplifiers, lets see what a top tier product will do.

The HA-300 certainly looks impressive (if large), but I can't find any specs about output impedance, power, or distortion.

Do you have any insight on that data?
 

Perfectsound

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Hello everyone,

I would first like to apologize for the quality of my English, it is not a language that I mastered well, but I felt challenged by this present post because I myself own the Darkvoice 336 SE since soon two years.

I own a pair of Seinnheiser HD 555 so the features place the impedance at 50 ohms. So it's a low impedance listening headphones and I must admit that I have never been impressed with this pair of headphones regardless of which amplifier I plugged. I plan to change them in a year.

I bought the Darkvoice hoping to acquire a comfortable level of hearing for my Sennheiser. In the plugs in this newly acquired amp, I found an improvement acceptable compared to what I heard Seinnheiser up to date compared to other previous small amp cheap I bought or plugs to hedphone that are intregrated amp, but the sound was rather disembodied and dry and it lacked this little something again, I will return later on the subject.

When I bought the Darkvoice, the amp was out of stock and was therefore not available in new. I bought it second hand, slightly used. It was like new, but at a fraction of the price of a new one. It was I think a good deal and of course, the tubes had already had their few hours of break-in. Which means that at first listen, I had no background noise or hum percetible hearing, even in the moment silence music. But, as I said earlier, I still found the sound rather disembodied and dry despite this improvement noted compared to my previous headphones amps.

About 6 months ago, I decided to look for tubes to upgrade the Darkvoice. Admittedly, the original tubes of the Darkvoice 336 SE are rather very cheap. So I opted for the WINGED "C" 6H13C / 6AS7G in the first place. With this change, I already had much better sound quality that became much richer and warmer while being gentle to the ears, it was not perfect, but it was much better and I have to respond to there, listened to music for almost an average of 2 hours a day with a few times, weekend days of 5 to 6 hours of music with headphones. The sound has become soft enough that my ears do not get tired during these long listening periods.

A month and a half ago, I decided to add some by acquiring the NORTHERN ELECTRIC 6SN7. When I received it, I was excited to install it and do my first plays with ... The big disappointment I have at first ... A nasty big hum in the right channel ... I was really shocked and I was sure it was the NORTHERN ELECTRIC that was the problem, all the more disappointed that I paid for it at a very high price and the reviews were quite unanimous about the quality of this tube. In short, I then expressed my dissatisfaction with the seller of this tube. The seller had already seen and he asked me what amp I had. I told him the brand and model I had, he came back to me specifying that it was common with this amp and that there were two possible options, or make a small change on the circuit or simply by doing a 72 hours burn 6SN7 simply by removing the 6AS7 from the amp and keeping it on to burn the 6NS7. I chose the second option. After 48 hours of burn, I wanted to do a test and all hum and background noise disappeared.

Finally, I later appreciated the quality of the NORTHERN ELECTRIC 6SN7 which made the sound space wider and more detailed with a little more warm as if it were possible to add to what my WINGED "C "6H13C / 6AS7G gave.

All that to say that I am very satisfied with the Darkvoice 336 SE in general despite some small defects. I think it's a very honest amp for its price. For the moment, I am rather satisfied with what I have despite my main criticism is that the bass is still a little imprecise and muddy, but I also believe that the limit also comes Seinnheiser HD 555. That's why I account make a change of the headset listening within a year. I will be curious to try a Tube 5998 instead of the 6AS7G as proposed by Jkdjedi for low impedance headphones above all. Also, knowing that the Darkvoice is possibly better suited to high impedance headphones, this is something I will pay attention to.

It is the beauty of the tubes amplifiers, the system base and the transformer are very important for the quality of the system, but the different design and qualities of the tubes that exist also have an important part and everyone can find something for it.

By the way, thank you Amir for your review and other contributors for their contribution, all very informative.
 
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amjosh

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This is a review and detailed measurements of the DarkVoice 336SE pre-amp and headphone amplifier. It is on kind loan from a member who has literally been waiting months to get it reviewed! It costs USD $310 on Amazon including free shipping. It has 42 reviews summing to 4.5 stars on Amazon so customer satisfaction must be good.

This is one beast of a headphone amplifier with a massive transformer and large chassis weighing it down:

Up to now we have tested hybrid tube headphone amplifiers that use tubes as the first stage but drive the headphones using transistors. That allows the output impedance to be as low as solid state amplifier yet give you the "benefits" of tubes, whatever they may be. In DarkVoice 336SE, the signal path is all tube. The configuration is OTL meaning Output-Transformer-Less. A tube amplifier needs to block high voltage DC from going out of the unit and also reduce the rather high output impedance of tubes. This is most often done with a transformer but in OTL designs, other methods are used. The benefit is supposed to be getting rid of nonlinearities of the transformer. The drawbacks depend on the design with the most common one being high output impedance.

The big transformer here is for the power supply. I see no safety markings on the unit. I will be opening the unit later to see how it is inside. Until then, I would make sure to not touch the chassis any more than you have to and only use one hand if possible.

Fit and finish is OK but you probably noticed the crooked power switch. The volume control is damped and a bit stiff but otherwise fine.

There are a set of RCA outputs in addition to inputs so you can use the unit as a pre-amplifier if you like.

Let's get into the measurements and see how she does.

Measurements
The owner had given me a few tubes for the first stage (6SN7). I put one in there randomly and boy, was that a mistake. There was massive amount of hum both audibly and in measurements. Indeed in measurements there were more hum than signal! So I switched to the Raytheon 6SN7 which I had from review of Schiit Saga. That reduced the hum substantially although you could start to hear it past 12:00 o'clock or so on the volume control. Dashboard measurements using RCA outs show the same:

View attachment 21262

Yes, this is a total disaster as measurements go. There is really no reason for such elevated power supply hum. They reach up above the largest harmonic of the amplifier itself!

Speaking of the harmonics, they fall off close to perceptual masking so they are less audible than their numbers would indicate:

index.php


The Masking threshold on the right drops off exponential and so does the distortion components of the 336SE. So if you are going to have distortions, you want them this way.

Switching to headphone jack, performance remains more or less the same but by loading it down with my standard 600 Ohm, distortion rises substantially:

View attachment 21263

Covering our basics, here is the frequency response:
View attachment 21264

Pretty good actually with just a 0.7 dB drop at 20 Hz.

Warm-up showed quick stability:
View attachment 21265

Problem arises in impedance measurement:

View attachment 21266

Best case impedance is 78 ohm from 300 Hz up. Below that there is a large increase to 163 ohm at 20 kHz. This means two things:

1) With headphones with variable impedance at low values, there will be substantial change in frequency response.

2) The output is going to drop radically with lower impedance headphones.

Speaking of power, let's measure that into 300 Ohm:
View attachment 21267

We have plenty of power here, beating even Massdrop THX AAA 789. Reason for this is that at high impedances, power is limited by voltage. Tube amps run at high voltages easily and hence, are not limited this way. The DarkVoice 336SE delivers double the power of the THX (in single-ended mode). If we increases the output load impedance to say 600 Ohm, the Darkvoice would likely pull ahead even more.

Distortion of course is massively high, reaching up to nearly 5% at max rated power! "Good news" is that it sets in gradually and there is no sharp hockey stick as we see with many transistor amplifiers.

Situation degrades substantially at 33 ohm as we could easily predict:
View attachment 21268

Power output is just 0.2 watts, losing massively to THX's 1.3 watts. Distortion is also sky high at 20%.

Channel matching starts OK but as the volume goes lower and lower, it loses all hope:
View attachment 21269

So if the hum doesn't get you with sensitive IEMs, the channel mismatch will.

No sense in running more tests. We know the nature of this beast.

Listening Tests
Testing the subjective fidelity turned out to be more complicated than one would imagine. Due to high output impedance of the Darkvoice 336SE, the output level you get in your headphones will be highly variable. As such, matching levels with test tones and my analyzer got me close but not close enough. I had to match levels manually against the reference Massdrop THX AAA 789 which is a difficult trial and error. After much work I think I got some useful results but not as reliable as I wanted.

Let's start with easier part of this trial, namely using low impedance headphones like my Hifiman HE-400i. Power output dropped substantially. As such the THX amp would run circles around the 336SE, producing tons more power, and dynamic range. Negating that by lowering the volume on THX 789, we were greeted with severe distortion if you turned up the volume on the 336SE. Pretty unpleasant experience. I read a bunch of reviews online and it was good to see the community's consensus being the same.

What the community did recommend was high impedance headphones such as my Sennheiser HD-650. Boy, did the tables turn. I could easily outrun the the THX AAA 789 (in its single-ended mode). Because of this you could operate the 336SE at lower volumes and hence much reduced distortion. Still, push the 336SE and you were greeted with shrill highs and lack of bass. The accentuated highs did give the impression of "more space" at times and exaggerated high frequency tones on some content was a pleasant addition. Once my ears tuned into them though (through careful AB test with the THX), it became a small annoyance. With a reference to test against, if you are coming from a lower output (or no) headphone amplifier, you are going to find the 336SE a revelation. It has enough power to do justice with high impedance headphones.

I then tested the two amps with my Sony MDRV6 which I think is rated at 60 ohms (?). Here, hum from the 336SE was audible when music was paused, or at times during very quiet parts. The issue was loss of resolution and impact in bass frequencies. That sense of "hi-fi" that makes you feel every note was gone with the 336SE.

Switching to my sensitive AKG AK60 headphones exaggerated the situation with the Sony above. Bass impact was gone and highs become more shrill/hissy.

The lesson here is that what you hear will be highly load, volume and content dependent. It will also depend on your hearing acuity as to whether you can hear small distortions and true resolution.

Conclusions
From objective point of, the DarkVoice 336SE is absolutely horrible. It is worse than it should be but at $310 for all that you get, I guess that is to be expected.

People though get such products for their subjective qualities. There, I can confirm the appeal of using the 336SE with high impedance headphones of 300 ohm and higher. There is copious amount of power here, and what distortion there is, is masked for the most part. In my experience of either power amplifiers or headphone, how much power you have available determines fidelity first and foremost. Lack of power results in anemic sound which seems to lack impact, and even resolution. The high output voltage of DarkVoice 336SE gives it such a strong advantage that it can override its much higher distortion. With that distortion following perceptual masking, it is not as much of a detriment as it may seem at first.

Going to lower impedance headphones is unwise though. There is insufficient current to drive them together with large output impedance which substantially degrades/changes the frequency response of the headphone. You are much better off with a powerful and distortion-free solid state headphone amplifier such as JDS Labs Atom and Massdrop THX AAA 789. They will get louder and will be cleaner to boot.

So do I recommend the DarkVoice 336SE under any conditions and lose my objectivist license with it??? :) With high impedance headphones if you like what comes with tubes as far as maintenance, and can be blind to any safety issues here, sure, you can get the 336SE and I won't be there to hound you. Use it in other scenarios and you and I will have words! :)

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Amazing review!! I have Darkvoice, THX AAA 789 and Audio-GD NFB 11.28 (non-performance edition). I totally resonate with your observations, though, I could not have come up with them myself without testing that you do :). HD 6XX pairs rather well with Darkvoice, but most planar magnetic ones like Hifiman 560 or Audeze EL8 do not at all. It looks super cool with those big ass tubes shining above though :D
 

Archsam

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I came across this post just as I have rediscovered my old Darkvoice 332 amp I purchased from 2007. The 332 is a bigger, and slightly older brother to the 336SE. Some said on head-fi that the 332 is a slightly better amp than the 336 (which is the predecessor to the 336SE, the only difference is in the casing). The 332 uses a pair of signal + power tubes vs. one set for the 336SE.

I have written on head-fi about my experience with this amp over the last 2 days:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/darkvoice-just-released-332.201787/post-15604717

I'm frankly surprised at how good the sound is coming out of my Focal Clear, which has a impedance rating of 55 Ohms. By definition (and based on Amir's test) I should expect a distorted and muddy sound. However what I am hearing is clear, (relatively) detailed, and the bass output that is deeper and has more impact than my Matrix Audio Element X and Benchmark DAC1's headphone output. Mind you, when it comes to soundstage depth and detail retrieval, the other amps beats the DV by a mile. Subjectively however, I am hearing good dynamic range, very pleasing deep bass, and vocals that are fuller (though less detail) than my other gears.

When we say this amp is good with high impedance headphones, where exactly is the threshold when the performance is expected to drop off?

I have a pair of new Audeze LCD-X coming next week - they are rated at 20 Ohms. It'll be fun to see how good or bad that combo will sound.
 
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Veri

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I came across this post just as I have rediscovered my old Darkvoice 332 amp I purchased from 2007. The 332 is a bigger, and slightly older brother to the 336SE. Some said on head-fi that the 332 is a slightly better amp than the 336 (which is the predecessor to the 336SE, the only difference is in the casing). The 332 uses a pair of signal + power tubes vs. one set for the 336SE.

I have a pair of new Audeze LCD-X coming next week - they are rated at 20 Ohms. It'll be fun to see how bad that combo will sound.

If you like the bass effect on your lower impedance Focal then that's fine. It's just not the Clear's reference response. You like what you like :)
About the LCD-X, since it is a planar magnetic, impedance-frequency response curve will be flat, meaning no problems there. What could happen though is that you start hearing a lot of distortion should the amp run out of current and start to clip.
 

Archsam

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Interesting find on Innerfidelity regarding Focal Clear's measurement:

Impedance plot shows a nominally 60 Ohm headphone, but the primary driver resonance at 55Hz is very strong. This will appear as an increase in bass response with higher output impedance amplifiers like OTL tube amps. As such, I don't recommend the Clear with these amps.

https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/focal-clear-over-ear-open-headphones-measurements

That explains the inflated bass output that I am experiencing.
 

Archsam

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The more I listen to the Darkvoice amp the more it reminded me of my school days when I listened to Sony Walkman / Discman and turning up the bass boost button :D

The sound quality is definitely not superior to my other gears, but when I'm listening to older pop recordings from the 90's, (often mixed with thin sounding bass) the bass bump is really great.

There are other posts on ASR that compared the tube sound to food - high fidelity sound is like dining at Gordon Ramsey's, but sometimes you might prefer to add a little salt to the dish. I will put it differently - if my Element X's headphone output represents fine dining, then the Darkvoice is the local greasy burger joint down the street. You can't eat greasy burgers every day, but sometimes you get a craving for it.
 

Jkdjedi

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Anybody here try any of the simple mods to lift the so called veil on this amp? There's a bunch out there and the two simple ones I did opened this amp up by noticeable margins. The first one I tried was just disconnecting the RCA out (I eventually just took the whole wiring out to be sure) That was a huge boost in headroom. to clean things up I then tried out the Bias LED Mod (which darkened the background even deeper)

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/darkvoice-and-crack-mods.5621/
 
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