Review and Measurements of Chord Mojo DAC and Amp

[Sokel]

A sloppy example (someone with proper gear,please-please repeat it please)

The SINAD of my old interface:

The same interface going through a Multitone measurement vs level:

(only the last 30db,measurements in dbr,no weighting,so do your math)

 

[Els]

I am impressed, are you calling for proper measurement gear or proper music listening gear. Show me yours, I'll show you mine.

 

[VintageFlanker]

I am impressed, are you calling for proper measurement gear or proper music listening gear. Show me yours, I'll show you mine.

Is this proper music listening gear?

Just asking. I find it acceptable, but I don't know much...

 

[Frank Dernie]

At the same time I was comparing early CD to high end analogue.

Some of the CDs with the best sound quality were amongst the first I bought.
Nimbus in particular.
Some of my early LPs sound great on my high end turntable, some don’t.

I make music recordings and early digital (a StellaDAT) was the first recorder where the output from the recorder was indistinguishable from the microphone feed. That never really happened on magnetic tape.

So my experience tells me over 30 years ago digital was already superior to high end analogue for audible accuracy (Revox B77 and Linn LP12 and Technics SP10 back then)

 

[Killingbeans]

I don't mind repeated challenges. Just don't expect to convince me.

If an exchange of good arguments is taken as a challenge to ignore them... then what's the point of engaging in the first place?

 

[majingotan]

I am impressed, are you calling for proper measurement gear or proper music listening gear. Show me yours, I'll show you mine.

Mojo drives my Sony MDR 7506 (ETA Mini C mod) headphones better than my AK SP2000 DAP. I attribute the slightly noticeable difference from the amplifier section though rather than the DAC itself when volume matched A/B with a multimeter (Mojo is fuller sounding compared to my SP2000)

For my IEM though SP2000 is sonically better than Mojo due to hissing that's very audible on quiet tracks. (SP2000 DAP is a lot less powerful than the Mojo and has better noise floor when a very sensitive IEM like mine's is used)

 

[Simon P]

If an exchange of good arguments is taken as a challenge to ignore them... then what's the point of engaging in the first place?

I'm not ignoring them, just disagreeing with them. I can disagree without thinking it stops the earth or is all that important. I have nothing to push or gain myself either way.

I don't see any definitive arguments for complete audible equivalence of DACs. There are good reasons they don't sound the same because they don't reproduce arbitrary waveforms the same. Many DAC chip designers know and acknowledge this. They also put different filters onboard, knowing they affect the time domain a lot more than they affect the frequency/phase domain and knowing there is no perfect answer.

In the case of the Mojo 1, the SQ differences are pretty major and obvious c/w your average off the shelf chip implementation.

 

[antcollinet]

I'm not ignoring them, just disagreeing with them. I can disagree without thinking it stops the earth or is all that important. I have nothing to push or gain myself either way.

I don't see any definitive arguments for complete audible equivalence of DACs. There are good reasons they don't sound the same because they don't reproduce arbitrary waveforms the same. Many DAC chip designers know and acknowledge this. They also put different filters onboard, knowing they affect the time domain a lot more than they affect the frequency/phase domain and knowing there is no perfect answer.

In the case of the Mojo 1, the SQ differences are pretty major and obvious c/w your average off the shelf chip implementation.

Major and obvious? Really?

Why can't you hear them blind then?

 

[DSJR]

I'm not ignoring them, just disagreeing with them. I can disagree without thinking it stops the earth or is all that important. I have nothing to push or gain myself either way.

I don't see any definitive arguments for complete audible equivalence of DACs. There are good reasons they don't sound the same because they don't reproduce arbitrary waveforms the same. Many DAC chip designers know and acknowledge this. They also put different filters onboard, knowing they affect the time domain a lot more than they affect the frequency/phase domain and knowing there is no perfect answer.

In the case of the Mojo 1, the SQ differences are pretty major and obvious c/w your average off the shelf chip implementation.

Please sir - I'm genuinely not baiting here, but we need *repeatable proof* of pronouncements such as this. I've done and sat in on dems in past years when I swore I'd heard a 'difference' when ABSOLUTELY NOTHING was changed - and then an M-Scaler dem when I perceived a deeper soundstage but having a suspicion the sound was 'quieter' - it was, by a measured (elsewhere) 2+ dB)!!!

The reason why you'd be challenged on things like this is how incredibly easy it is to fool our minds with suggestion, let alone our subjective opinions changing with the weather, mood, health and so on. I honestly believe the filter options in dacs are there 'because they can' and the dac manufacturers usually set a default which I'd assume would be the one they think best to show the product off.

Dacs are a done thing now anyway and I'd suggest you choose on facilities, after care if keeping a long time and ultimately casework and price. having said that, there is a school of thought that insists there are still *audible* improvements to be made, especially on the streaming side, where the reproduced perception of the 'room' a nicely recorded piece of chamber music was recorded in is concerned. I don't expect the hard-core engineer-objectivists here would acknowledge this though - and that's perfectly fine by me... I have no axe to grind either way and can't afford to indulge anyway, but I mention it nonetheless.

 

[Simon P]

Please sir - I'm genuinely not baiting here, but we need *repeatable proof* of pronouncements such as this. I've done and sat in on dems in past years when I swore I'd heard a 'difference' when ABSOLUTELY NOTHING was changed - and then an M-Scaler dem when I perceived a deeper soundstage but having a suspicion the sound was 'quieter' - it was, by a measured (elsewhere) 2+ dB)!!!

The reason why you'd be challenged on things like this is how incredibly easy it is to fool our minds with suggestion, let alone our subjective opinions changing with the weather, mood, health and so on. I honestly believe the filter options in dacs are there 'because they can' and the dac manufacturers usually set a default which I'd assume would be the one they think best to show the product off.

Dacs are a done thing now anyway and I'd suggest you choose on facilities, after care if keeping a long time and ultimately casework and price. having said that, there is a school of thought that insists there are still *audible* improvements to be made, especially on the streaming side, where the reproduced perception of the 'room' a nicely recorded piece of chamber music was recorded in is concerned. I don't expect the hard-core engineer-objectivists here would acknowledge this though - and that's perfectly fine by me... I have no axe to grind either way and can't afford to indulge anyway, but I mention it nonetheless.

Yes you can fool yourself, yes I might be deluded, and yes, there are plenty of engineers trying to improve digital sound. That's life. People have various perceptions and various vested interests.

 

[Sokel]

I am impressed, are you calling for proper measurement gear or proper music listening gear. Show me yours, I'll show you mine.

Measurement of course!Gear AND knowledge (newbie and loving it!)

 

[Simon P]

Please sir - I'm genuinely not baiting here, but we need *repeatable proof* of pronouncements such as this. I've done and sat in on dems in past years when I swore I'd heard a 'difference' when ABSOLUTELY NOTHING was changed - and then an M-Scaler dem when I perceived a deeper soundstage but having a suspicion the sound was 'quieter' - it was, by a measured (elsewhere) 2+ dB)!!!

The reason why you'd be challenged on things like this is how incredibly easy it is to fool our minds with suggestion, let alone our subjective opinions changing with the weather, mood, health and so on. I honestly believe the filter options in dacs are there 'because they can' and the dac manufacturers usually set a default which I'd assume would be the one they think best to show the product off.

Dacs are a done thing now anyway and I'd suggest you choose on facilities, after care if keeping a long time and ultimately casework and price. having said that, there is a school of thought that insists there are still *audible* improvements to be made, especially on the streaming side, where the reproduced perception of the 'room' a nicely recorded piece of chamber music was recorded in is concerned. I don't expect the hard-core engineer-objectivists here would acknowledge this though - and that's perfectly fine by me... I have no axe to grind either way and can't afford to indulge anyway, but I mention it nonetheless.

Nope.

 

[Simon P]

Nope.

DACs measure different. Especially in the time domain. Some people think there are meaningful sound differences too. Beyond that, opinion and sometimes vested interest.

 

[antcollinet]

DACs measure different. Especially in the time domain. Some people think there are meaningful sound differences too. Beyond that, opinion and sometimes vested interest.

Sure - badly designed ones do.

 

[mansr]

I can disagree without thinking

Yes, you can.

 

[BDWoody]

yes I might be deluded...

Something I can finally agree with.

Some people think there are meaningful sound differences too.

They certainly do. Any that have done properly controlled listening tests between comparable DACs using comparable filters you can point to? That would change the situation, but since no one has ever done so, including the manufacturers who make the silly claims in the first place, they can be safely ignored along with the rest of the marketing propaganda that seems to have a lot of people convinced they can hear things, which there is no evidence of. None, despite the great story about filters and all.

People have various perceptions and various vested interests.

Exactly, which is why we try to keep it to what is based on evidence, and not imagination. If the 'argument' is just going to be 'I trust my ears, just like the guy selling the stuff told me to,' then you are supporting the vested interests of those who would love you to continue to hear what they are suggesting you will.

 

[Simon P]

Yeah right. Leave you bunch to it.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

They certainly do. Any that have done properly controlled listening tests between comparable DACs using comparable filters you can point to? That would change the situation, but since no one has ever done so, including the manufacturers who make the silly claims in the first place, they can be safely ignored along with the rest of the marketing propaganda that seems to have a lot of people convinced they can hear things, which there is no evidence of. None, despite the great story about filters and all.

since Chord Dacs have a proprietary DAC section design and extensive oversampling filtering, unlike almost any other available DAC, then as you put it, it would be a nigh impossible task to find a Comparable DAC or Comparable filters.
Recent software based oversampling/filtering programs can be considered comparable, but then again the pulse-array topology has no direct equivalent. Even though it is a delta sigma at heart.
So, where does this leave us?
I don't know. the above is no endorsement that Chords better, just different !
Does it sound better? that's a subjective question for individuals.

 

[BDWoody]

since Chord Dacs have a proprietary DAC section design and extensive oversampling filtering, unlike almost any other available DAC, then as you put it, it would be a nigh impossible task to find a Comparable DAC or Comparable filters.

Find one close.
Won't matter.

I don't know. the above is no endorsement that Chords better, just different !

Doesn't mean it will sound different.

Does it sound better? that's a subjective question for individuals.

Let's start with seeing if anyone can determine a difference, let alone preference.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Find one close.
Won't matter .

I only replied since you insisted on those pre requirements.
I will look when I have nothing to do.