Review and Measurements of Bluesound NODE 2i Streamer

[BobPM]

I have a Modius on the way and will be attaching it to my Node 2, the older model. I have a mid priced wireworld coax cable that was probably a waste of money, but I intend to use it to go from the node to the Modius, and then Mogami XLR's into my Shiit Freya + and on to my nc400 amp again using Mogami XLR cables.

I will also switch to some cheap optical cables and compare the sound to the coax since the Toslink seemed to measure better than coax on the Modius. I will post my results. Unfortunately, I don't have a real good way to do a blind a/b.

 

[JClarkw]

Correct re Qobuz

For the rest , then you should be golden. I cant imagine any modern DAC that cant accept 24/96 through any input.

Jimbob54 (or whoever knows) -- Thinking more deeply about piggy-backing a modern DAC on the Node 2, I now realize that many (including the Topping D50s that I have on order) don't spec support for MP3, AAC, and other low-bit-rate formats. I'm guessing that, if the Node 2 is playing something from TuneIn, for example, such a piggy-back DAC simply won't decode whatever is coming out of the Node's digital outputs, and I would have to bypass it. Correct?

(Or is the Node 2 smart enough to up-sample its digital outputs to something generally compatible?)

On the other hand the D50s, in particular, has Bluetooth, which should provide another way in for such Codecs from an external source (e.g., computer). Right? -- JClarkW

 

[MingChops]

Jimbob54 (or whoever knows) -- Thinking more deeply about piggy-backing a modern DAC on the Node 2, I now realize that many (including the Topping D50s that I have on order) don't spec support for MP3, AAC, and other low-bit-rate formats. I'm guessing that, if the Node 2 is playing something from TuneIn, for example, such a piggy-back DAC simply won't decode whatever is coming out of the Node's digital outputs, and I would have to bypass it. Correct?

(Or is the Node 2 smart enough to up-sample its digital outputs to something generally compatible?)

On the other hand the D50s, in particular, has Bluetooth, which should provide another way in for such Codecs from an external source (e.g., computer). Right? -- JClarkW

The DAC doesn’t need support for MP3 and any other codecs used, that is the job of the streamer (aka transport) to essentially unpack the container (mp3, flac, alac, etc) and then feed on to the DAC. It is still a digital signal going to the DAC as the unpacking does not involve analog conversion to do this, and a good transport will unpack and feed on with no modification to the data (aka bit perfect). With respect to PCM which is most music to be honest, then the DAC needs to support the sample rates of the unpacked file, this is where support for anything from 16/44.1 (CD/red book) up to say 24/192 or higher, is required by the DAC (and the interface you wish to use; optical, coax, usb).
(There is also DSD, which a DAC must support in addition to PCM (i.e not all DACs do DSD) - but again it’s the DSD rates it needs to support not file types)
((If you want DSD but your DAC doesn’t support it, then the transport could encapsulate it over PCM which is DoP ...DSD over PCM - others can explain DSD to you better than I, everything I listen to is 100% PCM. Bluesound Nodes don’t do DoP anyway).

 

[BDWoody]

Amir clearly stated that it was the optical input that gave trouble in testing (I don't believe she looked at the digital outputs at all),

Ummm...Amir's not a she...

 

[MingChops]

On your TosLink-vs-Coax experiment, I'm eager to hear how it turns out

Listening now, TL;DR...given up trying to find a tangible difference

I’m using a Van Damme optical cable and a Van Damme coax - so not escoteric, but good value and not cheap shit either (expensive digital is snake oil IMHO), anyway there is a parity on price/performance between each so at least evens the playing field for the test.
However yeah really nothing at all between them. I had my daughter switch for me whilst in my listening position, and then later I was changing it which meant I was near field to the speaker, in either case nothing between them.

I’m not sure there’s much of a difference with the Node 2i and Modius either. Slightly smoother, slightly less busy background, but really there’s such narrow margins it’s almost irrelevant.
For what it’s worth to give an idea on the kit I’m using:
Node 2i -> Van Damme optical cable -> Schiit Modius -> QED Reference 40 RCA cables -> Audiolab 8300A -> QED Silver XT cables -> KEF R5.
Pretty decent in my opinion. And the sound is simply stunning that I’m listening to, but in terms of discerning a difference then yeah sweet FA really! YMMV and headphone listening I’m sure would reveal more.

I’m going to keep the Modius, it looks great in my setup and yes there is a slight improvement and that smoothness just helps take an element of sharpness that can sometimes be heard. So I do recommend it, just don’t expect a gulf of difference (which I was, naively!).

I’m curious to try an expensive DAC like a Chord Qutest which I intend to demo at some point, but I think I’m pretty much at my end game setup right now anyway. Perhaps I’ll try XLR from the Modius to my amp next....but I’m slightly reluctant given the price of equiv RCA leads to make it fair (QED Ref XLR’s ££!)

 

[JClarkw]

Ummm...Amir's not a she...

Sorry, Amir (and all)! I did learn that some days ago, but his avatar keeps haunting me...

 

[JClarkw]

The DAC doesn’t need support for MP3 and any other codecs used, that is the job of the streamer (aka transport) to essentially unpack the container (mp3, flac, alac, etc) and then feed on to the DAC... With respect to PCM which is most music to be honest, then the DAC needs to support the sample rates of the unpacked file, this is where support for anything from 16/44.1 (CD/red book) up to say 24/192 or higher, is required by the DAC (and the interface you wish to use; optical, coax, usb)...

Thanks much, MingChops, for that clarification. So the correct question (I guess) would be, does the Node 2 unpack such low-bit-rate Codecs to at least 16/44.1? (Sorry, but my ignorance about this stuff is still tripping me up...) -- JClarkW

 

[MingChops]

Thanks much, MingChops, for that clarification. So the correct question (I guess) would be, does the Node 2 unpack such low-bit-rate Codecs to at least 16/44.1? (Sorry, but my ignorance about this stuff is still tripping me up...) -- JClarkW

The Node supports the below file formats and sample rates. Note that an encoded file can be low or high bit rate, it’s not always indicative to say it is always low or high based on the file format and codec in question. The real issue with something like mp3 is the compression via lossey algorithms - whereas FLAC on the other hand is lossless, but again note that it can contain low or high sample rate files.

So as long as the file format you intend to play is support as below, you’re basically good. The Node will not* up or down sample anything, it will unpack and play (or send out the digital outs) as-is.
(*The exception might be MQA depending on if there’s an external MQA DAC or not - I have little desire to learn anything about MQA as IMO it’s a waste of time now!).

Supported File Formats
MP3, AAC, WMA, OGG, WMA-L, ALAC, OPUS

Hi-Res formats - FLAC, MQA, WAV, AIFF

Native Sampling Rates
32 - 192 kHz
Bit Depths
16 - 24

Note - I’ve lifted that out the Node 2i page, I don’t know if the previous Node 2 may be subtlety different with it’s support, though I suspect not.

All my local store music is 16/44.1 FLAC, and streaming is via Amazon HD - for that the Node is a great device IMO. The software is rock solid and as I can evidence in my setup, it is more than up to par for playback with it’s own DAC.

 

[REK2575]

I'm a huge fan of the Node2i as well -- but given how cheap decent DACs are these days, and given that the Node's native DAC is mediocre at best, I'd strongly recommend supplementing it with something like the Topping E30 for a substantial upgrade in performance for minimal outlay of cash. Just my $0.02...

 

[MingChops]

I'm a huge fan of the Node2i as well -- but given how cheap decent DACs are these days, and given that the Node's native DAC is mediocre at best, I'd strongly recommend supplementing it with something like the Topping E30 for a substantial upgrade in performance for minimal outlay of cash. Just my $0.02...

Hmmm sorry but it‘s hyperbole to say the internal DAC is mediocre at best and can be substantially improved on. Technical measurements can be improved on as witnessed here on ASR, but it doesn’t translate to a large delta in actual usage. I all but gave up listening out for real tangible differences to the Schiit Modius, if you have to study the sound to the nth degree - it is not a substantial upgrade, not by a long shot.
Other people may have more success in hearing differences and especially headphone listening might reveal more, and I’ve not tried that (I have no headphone amp), but I would wager substantial will always be very wide of the truth - my ears are not broken (I’m 37 and have no hearing issues) and my gear is decent.

 

[JClarkw]

I'm a huge fan of the Node2i as well -- but given how cheap decent DACs are these days, and given that the Node's native DAC is mediocre at best, I'd strongly recommend supplementing it with something like the Topping E30 for a substantial upgrade in performance for minimal outlay of cash. Just my $0.02...

Sorry, REK2575, but it's still not clear to me if either you or MingChops has tried passing through typical streams from TuneIn (often compressed to 128 kbps or worse) to a modern piggy-back DAC. Since MingChops has clarified for me that "the Node will not* up or down sample anything, it will unpack and play (or send out the digital outs) as-is," and since the Node 2 itself supports sampling rates >=32 kHz, it seems probable (?) that at least some of the unpacked PCM (I think) streams will be less than 16/44.1. (I'm afraid my ignorance is showing again!) Am I wrong about this? -- JClarkW

 

[REK2575]

Hmmm sorry but it‘s hyperbole to say the internal DAC is mediocre at best and can be substantially improved on. Technical measurements can be improved on as witnessed here on ASR, but it doesn’t translate to a large delta in actual usage. I all but gave up listening out for real tangible differences to the Schiit Modius, if you have to study the sound to the nth degree - it is not a substantial upgrade, not by a long shot.
Other people may have more success in hearing differences and especially headphone listening might reveal more, and I’ve not tried that (I have no headphone amp), but I would wager substantial will always be very wide of the truth - my ears are not broken (I’m 37 and have no hearing issues) and my gear is decent.

I'm really not sure how anyone could read Amir's review of the Node 2i, looking at his measurements, and conclude that it's 'hyperbole' to call the Node 2i's DAC mediocre:

"Bluesound specs the unit at 0.005% and measurements are actually better in both channels. Resulting SINAD though (signal over noise and distortion) is not great at just 88 dB. This is well short of the dynamic range of the CD so the statement that the unit supports high-resolution, 24-bit playback is moot. The SINAD lands in out lowest quarter as far as DACs/streamers tested"

As Amir says, the Node 2i can't even give you CD-quality playback on its own. That's 'mediocre at best,' and it wouldn't be a stretch to call it simply bad. It does land in the lowest quartile of DACs tested on this site. Spend $130 on a Topping E30 and turn the Node 2i into something that can actually give you high resolution playback.

 

[MingChops]

I'm really not sure how anyone could read Amir's review of the Node 2i, looking at his measurements, and conclude that it's 'hyperbole' to call the Node 2i's DAC mediocre:

"Bluesound specs the unit at 0.005% and measurements are actually better in both channels. Resulting SINAD though (signal over noise and distortion) is not great at just 88 dB. This is well short of the dynamic range of the CD so the statement that the unit supports high-resolution, 24-bit playback is moot. The SINAD lands in out lowest quarter as far as DACs/streamers tested"

As Amir says, the Node 2i can't even give you CD-quality playback on its own. That's 'mediocre at best,' and it wouldn't be a stretch to call it simply bad. It does land in the lowest quartile of DACs tested on this site. Spend $130 on a Topping E30 and turn the Node 2i into something that can actually give you high resolution playback.

Because it’s sensationalist tripe that there is a “significant” upgrade to be had, in first hand extend A/B testing there is marginal difference, not significant difference.

Do you even own a Node 2i?

Despite this site it’s a very well received unit for sound quality, given the optical input issues it’s not beyond the realm that the tested unit was simply faulty, I haven’t seen any other tests ratifying Amir’s?

I do own one, and have listened to it for over a year and it sounds great, I‘ve literally this week added in a so-called well measuring DAC (better than the E30 fwiw), and as said in A/B testing it’s nothing more than marginal, and often nothing at all. If someone swapped my Modius back to the internal without me knowing I wouldn’t notice, and that is my point, it is hyperbole to say significant.

 

[REK2575]

Have you seen any other tests at all? Because that's ultimately the point, isn't it -- the value of this site is that it is doing the tests that other audiophile sites are not, and providing some objective, scientific purchase on these questions of what constitutes a well-engineered DAC and what does not. You can ramble on about 'sensationalist tripe' all you want -- it is objectively the case that the Node 2i's DAC is substandard, and that upgrading to a DAC that will, at the very least, give you hi-res playback is, indeed, a significant improvement.

Hey, if you're happy with the Node 2i on its own, congratulations. More power to you. Why you feel a need to object so vehemently to someone who points out that *according to this site's very measurements* the Node 2i has a mediocre at best DAC is completely beyond me. If you want to produce some legitimate measurements of the Node 2i that challenge what Amir has tested, I'd be happy to see it. Otherwise, you're just here to tell us 'oh that's what Amir's tests show, who cares, here's my subjective experience of it' -- so yeah, great, whatever...

 

[BDWoody]

and that upgrading to a DAC that will, at the very least, give you hi-res playback is, indeed, a significant improvement.

Just maybe not an audible one.

 

[MingChops]

a significant improvement.

No it is your comments that are sensationalist, you clearly don’t understand the problem as highlighted again by saying a significant upgrade. It is not a significant upgrade, my issue is people will listen to your comment and spend good money expecting a lot - and there simply won’t be. Certinaly not a categoric one in every scenario, so I’m tempering this with actual feedback ffs. I can conclude you don’t own one, seems odd to be doling out advice then so audaciously.

 

[BobPM]

So the Modius came late yesterday. I hooked it up with the wireworld coax, and yes it does noticeably improve on the node's DAC. It is set up to go from the node > Modius > Freya+ > NC400 > Zaph L18. This was first impressions and not done under any kind of blind a/b testing process. The node's RCA out goes to one input on the Freya, and the Modius via XLR to another so its easy to switch between. The Modius output is significantly louder so I dropped the sound to zero before each switch and then brought the volume back up.

I think it is a noticeable improvement. The node direct is a little less clear and is more flat or one dimensional. With the Modius, there is more detail and it seems to have a larger sound stage. I still plan on seeing if I can hear a difference between Coax and Toslink. I may even try and enlist help from a friend to see if we can do some blind listening.

 

[MingChops]

So the Modius came late yesterday. I hooked it up with the wireworld coax, and yes it does noticeably improve on the node's DAC. It is set up to go from the node > Modius > Freya+ > NC400 > Zaph L18. This was first impressions and not done under any kind of blind a/b testing process. The node's RCA out goes to one input on the Freya, and the Modius via XLR to another so its easy to switch between. The Modius output is significantly louder so I dropped the sound to zero before each switch and then brought the volume back up.

I think it is a noticeable improvement. The node direct is a little less clear and is more flat or one dimensional. With the Modius, there is more detail and it seems to have a larger sound stage. I still plan on seeing if I can hear a difference between Coax and Toslink. I may even try and enlist help from a friend to see if we can do some blind listening.

Interesting for results on speakers, but if the volume isn't consistent any comparison is very difficult, even 1dB can bring about a noticeable increase in dynamics I've found. Also I'm wondering if the use of RCA from the Node 2i and XLR from the Modius is another variable at play too, especially as the Freya+ I believe does 'something' with SE inputs to make it a balanced output for XLR (something to do with differential buffering), the point being that maybe the Freya+ is just inherently better with native XLR not needing to run the signal through this additional stage as it does for RCA input.

As it happens I really fancy a Freya+, purely down to how it looks mind!

 

[Phrangko]

Does the sub out works if the node 2i is not used as a dac?

 

[Jimbob54]

Sorry, REK2575, but it's still not clear to me if either you or MingChops has tried passing through typical streams from TuneIn (often compressed to 128 kbps or worse) to a modern piggy-back DAC. Since MingChops has clarified for me that "the Node will not* up or down sample anything, it will unpack and play (or send out the digital outs) as-is," and since the Node 2 itself supports sampling rates >=32 kHz, it seems probable (?) that at least some of the unpacked PCM (I think) streams will be less than 16/44.1. (I'm afraid my ignorance is showing again!) Am I wrong about this? -- JClarkW

16= bit depth, 44.1 = sample rate . Pretty much any music file from early MP3 up to CD quality FLAC files and indeed CD will be 16/44.1.

For laymen like us , what lossy formats like MP3, AAC etc did was squish the bitrate . From CD at around 800-900 kb per second down to 128,192,320 kbps. Making the files much smaller. Put another way, less pixels on the page, but the page is the same size.

So yes, as long as the file is in a format that the DAC can read (and it will be able to do AAC and MP3 at least) - playback will not be a problem.

https://www.presonus.com/learn/tech...te of capture and,it applies to digital audio.