Review and Measurements of Audio-GD R8

[bunkbail]

What surprises me is that a lot of people are still saying these products sound well.

I have the Audio-gd R2R-11 and I still love how it sound despite all it's deficiencies (noticeable noise floor, sounds flat in complex/dynamic tracks, tinny treble etc). The only things I hate about this company are due to their dishonest published measurements and use of tons of discrete components without real engineering to back it up.

 

[digicidal]

I have the Audio-gd R2R-11 and I still love how it sound despite all it's deficiencies (noticeable noise floor, sounds flat in complex/dynamic tracks, tinny treble etc). The only things I hate about this company are due to their dishonest published measurements and use of tons of discrete components without real engineering to back it up.

That's quite interesting to me, since the deficiencies you enumerated are exactly what would turn me off to a DAC. If you don't mind, what do you feel the sound does right? Or is it more a case of it providing an identifiable connection to a different medium/time (vinyl, radio, tape, older recordings, live sound)? Not criticizing - your taste is your own and therefore perfectly valid for you. I'm just curious as to what the pros might be? More perceived texture or warmth? (You can PM me if you'd rather not post it in this thread - I'd understand that).

Yeah, it's too bad they're so dishonest. It seems that they could still have a decent amount of business just selling their "house sound" and being upfront about what they're doing to create it.

 

[maty]

Focusing only on sound, which I do not know, if the vast majority only listen to modern music that is very badly recorded intentionally since current digital technology is far superior to that of the early eighties, they should not notice differences with respect to a cleaner one, I say. That is the tragedy of the current audio (hardware) business.

 

[solderdude]

I think it is important to look for actual problems in audio gear.
Some severe ones will be audible with test tones.
With music the borders of detectability will be much lower.
Amirs (and others) measurements can show problematic behavior.

Another problem with establishing limits is that some types of 'sound modification' are worse than others.
Also in recording A the same 'limits' may be audible and in recording B it may be totally masked.
Some are bothered by certain types of 'alteration' than others.
Some even prefer certain alterations.

As the wise Paul McClown said... use common sense.

Measurements are useful to show problem areas.
Below certain limits it is pointless for sound quality but engineers will love to see how good it can get ultimately.
No point in dwelling over the final 0.0001% unless for archiving.
If only speakers/rooms and headphones would only even remotely come near the possible performance of electronics.

 

[digicidal]

If only speakers/rooms and headphones would only even remotely come near the possible performance of electronics.

Totally agree with that. Although I would add - if only 'signature sounds' weren't also additive in nature (if they're significant at least). It's one thing to have a device which colors the sound in a way that's pleasant rather than perfectly transparent. The problem then is we're back to the whole "synergistic selection" circle... because if the rest of the chain isn't transparent either... that coloration is likely to be further mutated into something that is less enjoyable.

I guess that's why I prefer everything be as transparent as possible and then use DSP, etc. to season as desired - rather than rely on the devices themselves to provide it all the time. Plus then it can be adjusted according to content - rather than having to listen to every recording the same way.

 

[pma]

the vast majority only listen to modern music that is very badly recorded intentionally since current digital technology is far superior to that of the early eighties, they should not notice differences with respect to a cleaner one, I say. That is the tragedy of the current audio (hardware) business.

For most of currently issued commercial music, 8bits dithered would be more than adequate. We have a paradox - we live in era of best technology ever and worst recordings ever, as a result of mp3 portable players and iPods/iPhones consumed music in cars and subways and thus the dictate of loudness wars. The only remaining niche is classical music issued by trusted labels.

 

[maty]

Off topic

Classical and jazz (I do not like modern jazz) from trusted labels. Always we must check first http://dr.loudness-war.info/ as a first filter and specialized circles, less and less in open Internet, so unpleasant in general.

Current classical recordings tend to have a very high tuning, looking for spectacularity, losing naturalness and credibility, hence they are usually avoided by me. Also in the past there were very good orchestra conductors and performers, whose performances excites me much more and more frequently.

- End off topic -

 

[raif71]

I have the Audio-gd R2R-11 and I still love how it sound despite all it's deficiencies (noticeable noise floor, sounds flat in complex/dynamic tracks, tinny treble etc). The only things I hate about this company are due to their dishonest published measurements and use of tons of discrete components without real engineering to back it up.

Did you demo the unit before buying it?

 

[solderdude]

we live in era of best technology ever and worst recordings ever, as a result of mp3 portable players and iPods/iPhones

Best technology I can live with.
Blaming mp3 and portable players are definitely not the reason.
You can get excellent sound quality from those devices and they surpassed the walkman type cassette players from the first day.
In the early days small memory sizes and encoders where the reason why it was relatively poor.

Pop music consumers and the loudness wars to play 'better' from phone speakers and in cars yes.
Still there are many, many extremely well made recordings and productions made today that exceed those made earlier.
Usually just not with consumer pop music for the masses.

 

[Koeitje]

As the wise Paul McClown said... use common sense.

Measurements are useful to show problem areas.
Below certain limits it is pointless for sound quality but engineers will love to see how good it can get ultimately.
No point in dwelling over the final 0.0001% unless for archiving.
If only speakers/rooms and headphones would only even remotely come near the possible performance of electronics.

I like measurements to show two things:

1. No problems that can be perceived by the human ear.
2. The product is competently designed.

 

[RickSanchez]

I propose some ASR 2019 awards:

D/A converter of the year
Amplifier of the year
Headphone amplifier of the year

Golden Turkey Annual Award for the worst tested product across all categories as voted by the members. Could be fun.

I'd also suggest combination DAC+hp amp of the year.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Yet Audiophonics (France) seems to promote Audio-GD as one of their finest and most excellent product lines. Does Audiophonics truly care about good design and audio component performance? Do their house brand products follow the same definition of "excellence"?

@Audiophonics is an online store.

Their housebrand products are often assemblies based on very good components (Ncores modules etc). They don't design DACs directly, but use existent designs and rebrand them (not a hidden thing).

Sure, I already pointed this contradiction: They link ASR reviews on some product pages, but in the same time, they are the biggest AGD reseller in France/EU (and AGD shows terrible performance there)... Their business, their choices... Most of regular audiophiles won't care about measurements here, anyway: "Listen with your ears, blablabla..." That being said, as an Audiophonics customer for years, I really can't complain about their services.

 

[Patrick1958]

@Audiophonics is an online store.

That being said, as an Audiophonics customer for years, I really can't complain about their services.

Idem dito

 

[Xulonn]

That being said, as an Audiophonics customer for years, I really can't complain about their services.

I am a "foreigner" with respect to this European (French) online retailer. It appears to me that Audiophonics is a popular company with a large customer base of mostly European "budget to midrange" audiophiles. Apparently (and as confirmed by some Euro ASR members), they are simply an online audio component reseller with good customer service. They also offer "pre-assembled kit" style audio components such as "Hypex-modules-in-a-case" amplifiers, which are similar to the Chinese-made Ghent Audio kits and amplifiers. Audiophonics' interesting range of products includes not only many mediocre to excellent products, but also a few product lines from the audiophool snake oil segment - like GD-Audio.

Although Audiophonics, as @amirm mentioned, refers to ASR reviews for some products, I have a feeling that they will not refer to ASR's GD-Audio product reviews - probably a good business decision.

I perceive Audiophonics as not having an ethical foundation to anchor their marketing and advertising tactics, but that is not unusual. If it were not for the hassle and expense of shipping to Panama (via Miami in the U.S.), I would not hesitate to buy from them, because the odds of getting defective or inferior products is likely lower than with Aliexpress. However, before buying from either a Euro or Asian online reseller, I base my purchasing decisions only on outside, independent reviews and/or discussions of the product and the reseller.

I am pleased to see a growing contingent of English-speaking Chinese and other Asian members at ASR, because we now have a resource for asking about products and suppliers on Aliexpress and other Asian internet resellers and the products they offer.

 

[bunkbail]

That's quite interesting to me, since the deficiencies you enumerated are exactly what would turn me off to a DAC. If you don't mind, what do you feel the sound does right? Or is it more a case of it providing an identifiable connection to a different medium/time (vinyl, radio, tape, older recordings, live sound)?

No, I never owned any vinyl/vintage gears, never even seen one in my life (I'm pretty young @ 26yo). I never had any prior experience with R2R DACs before R2R-11. I bought it after listening to it at my local audio store and it was my 2nd DAC after Chord Mojo. Back then I didn't even know there are different DAC topologies because I was still new into the hobby. I just thought the R2R-11 sounded so different (in a good way) to Mojo, particularly the imaging in acoustic/jazz/classical tracks and vocals (I still feels the same way today) and bought it purely because of that. Of course I did a lot of blind tests comparing these DACs over the years but I can never manage to score more than 60% accuracy (basically a toss-up), but on level-matched sighted listening tests, they sounded sooo different to each other. The tinny treble and noise floor that was so obvious before seemingly disappeared in my blind test, like wtf lmao. If only people can explain to me about this phenomenon it'll be awesome haha. That's why I still hang around here learning about things.

PS: No, my R2R-11 doesn't sound any warmer than my other sigma-delta DACs.

 

[Tks]

I really have a distaste for this company. I've never seen so many confirmations of fake specs than with these guys.

Also one thing I will never understand. How do so many people hype this brand? First off the branding font itself looks childishly bad. Second, the devices (EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM I KID YOU NOT) look like DIY projects that use mixed and matched parts. What I mean by this is awfully uninspired design, and just no degree of any serious finishing. There's no complexity to the design where you feel like "damn this company went the extra mile to do things the hard way for some reason"..

Lastly their marketing of course is par for the course.

How companies like this have even an audience is beyond me.

Thank you wolfX and amir for your work getting these on your bench. It's the nonsense of devices like this I really appreciate being demonstrated for what they are.

 

[digicidal]

No, I never owned any vinyl/vintage gears, never even seen one in my life (I'm pretty young @ 26yo). I never had any prior experience with R2R DACs before R2R-11. I bought it after listening to it at my local audio store and it was my 2nd DAC after Chord Mojo. Back then I didn't even know there are different DAC topologies because I was still new into the hobby. I just thought the R2R-11 sounded so different (in a good way) to Mojo, particularly the imaging in acoustic/jazz/classical tracks and vocals (I still feels the same way today) and bought it purely because of that. Of course I did a lot of blind tests comparing these DACs over the years but I can never manage to score more than 60% accuracy (basically a toss-up), but on level-matched sighted listening tests, they sounded sooo different to each other. The tinny treble and noise floor that was so obvious before seemingly disappeared in my blind test, like wtf lmao. If only people can explain to me about this phenomenon it'll be awesome haha. That's why I still hang around here learning about things.

PS: No, my R2R-11 doesn't sound any warmer than my other sigma-delta DACs.

The human brain is a wonderful and terrible thing at the same time. There was a time when I would have sworn the same thing about two of my CD players... when sighted it definitely wasn't as clear as day (or some other superlative) but I felt there were several identifiable differences. I also didn't hear any when blinded... but I think the real revelation came to me when I deliberately attempted to make them sound identical... and it didn't change those differences.

I had purchased the Cambridge Audio DacMagic when it first came out and I ran the optical outputs from both CD players through the DAC and switched back and forth. No level matching required, and clearly they should now be completely identical - and sighted I still heard those same differences. That cured me - now I know conclusively that I cannot trust my ears and brain to make the choice. Naturally, in your case, there are some actual differences... there have to be considering how the R2R-11 measures vs. the Chord DAC... so it's simply a matter of you preferring the distortion that it has over a cleaner, more transparent DAC. The difference is that sighted you are making those much more significant (and possibly telling yourself they are more pleasing) - which isn't surprising, especially since it confirms your initial feelings when you first auditioned it.

I don't see any problem with that preference per se - I just have quite a big problem with the company not being upfront and honest about it. Certainly when you see the measurements taken by two separate outside parties (which show distinct similarities to each other) but which are very, very different from the measurements posted on the manufacturer's site for those devices - something stinks.

That's not a matter of catering to a difference of subjective taste... that's outright fraud. Just be honest, and let the consumer make an informed choice. From the sounds of things - at least in your case - they would still get the sale... but there wouldn't be anything shady about the deal.

 

[xema]

Guys...please don't measure audio-gd's digital stuffs anymore, everyone knows they are sh*t.
Measure some analog stuffs instead?

 

[digicidal]

I perceive Audiophonics as not having an ethical foundation to anchor their marketing and advertising tactics, but that is not unusual.

More than "not unusual" I would say it's part of the definition of marketing and advertising... which is why (as you stated) it's important to consider other objective sources for information. Or if no objective reviews are available, at least find information from sources without a direct profit motivation related to the device in question like end-user subjective reviews. If they're taken with a good dose of skepticism they can still help some.

 

[Veri]

Guys...please don't measure audio-gd's digital stuffs anymore, everyone knows they are sh*t.
Measure some analog stuffs instead?

What analog.. 'stuffs' ?