Newk Yuler
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Thanks for the LOLs!
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Review and Measurements of Audio-GD R8
- Thread starter WolfX-700
- Start date
Yet Audiophonics (France) seems to promote Audio-GD as one of their finest and most excellent product lines. Does Audiophonics truly care about good design and audio component performance? Do their house brand products follow the same definition of "excellence"?
They do. They link to my measurements all the time. Amazon also sells a lot of garbage. We can't put blame on them for the products.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
S/N ratio is the maximum output voltage 0dBFS distance to the entire noise floor (so without the 1kHz) and no harmonics, no signal over the entire audible range and includes hum when present.
That means the S/N ratio > 120dB. This is clearly visible in the dashboard when one thinks away the 1kHz and harmonics.
Of course it is a worthless number because in practice the distortions will effectively 'raise' the noise floor.
you should Never Ever Forever consider this manufacturer's products. " Im'ma steal this if you don't mind,checks in the mail.In past measurements we have confirmed that even discrete R2R can perform very well.
However, many devices using the same type of technology perform poorly, which is why I mentioned in my previous measurements that I instinctively hate discrete R2R.
Today we have ushered in such a unit.
A reader of my website sent me this unit and he wanted me to measure it.
(If you are from China, I believe that by seeing the photos, you can already understand what terrible things will happen later)
View attachment 40751
This is the dashboard:
View attachment 40752
View attachment 40753
View attachment 40754
View attachment 40755
View attachment 40756
All the above measurement results indicate that this is a garbage.
Even more frightening is that the manufacturer is a liar
Here are the measurements published by the manufacturer:
View attachment 40757
My suggestion: you should Never Ever Forever consider this manufacturer's products.
patient_ot
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Yikes!
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That's due to FFT gain, it is not the real noise floor. APx can measure the real SNR figure anyways, @WolfX-700 can you help us with that?
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solderdude
Grand Contributor
good point .. the dynamic range measurement is kind of low.
The AP can spit out the number though.
R2R that does nothing is known to be capable of a very low noise floor (when it does nothing) where DS is always switching getting the average to be as close as possible to 0.
The AP can spit out the number though.
R2R that does nothing is known to be capable of a very low noise floor (when it does nothing) where DS is always switching getting the average to be as close as possible to 0.
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restorer-john
Grand Contributor
It seems the Ciunas is getting a run for its money.
I propose some ASR 2019 awards:
D/A converter of the year
Amplifier of the year
Headphone amplifier of the year
Golden Turkey Annual Award for the worst tested product across all categories as voted by the members. Could be fun.
I propose some ASR 2019 awards:
D/A converter of the year
Amplifier of the year
Headphone amplifier of the year
Golden Turkey Annual Award for the worst tested product across all categories as voted by the members. Could be fun.
There should be a Funniest Product category. Ciunas is well placed to win that one.
Tatteredmidnight
Active Member
Not that it particularly matters given the horrendous performance, but are the outputs balanced? I presume they are given the 4v output level. Also, great job once again, love seeing these, keep up the good work!
Yeh, I have been thinking about doing this. Have to figure out the logistics of it as far as candidates and such.
In their review of the R-8, 6Moons says "In conclusion, we were very impressed with this DAC. For the price, it offers very good sound ... if you want a versatile ladder DAC that handles both PCM and DSD, is highly adjustable and thus sounds great in the end, here's one you ought to sample."
The reviewer is probably not smoking crack, and probably approaches his gear review auditions pretty seriously.
So that leads me to ponder the following questions:
1. How audible is the coloration that these measurements of the R8 show it introduces?
2. If they are readily audible, is it possible that some listeners LIKE these colorations?
I wonder if adding a bunch of distortion to digital playback makes it sound "more analog" to some listeners. (I.e., reminiscent of vinyl.)
In that vein, I wonder if AMIRM could do some measurements of vinyl playback. Obviously his test set can't output a vinyl groove as an input signal. But there are LPs that have test tones on them, and just showing spectrum analysis of the output ought to provide some interesting information on just how good (or bad) the purity of signals coming off an LP is. I think a lot of people would be shocked at the levels of THD and IM. (and you'd have to look at distortion at a couple of places across the surface of the LP, as a pivoted arm's tracking error changes as a function of radius.)
You can also measure S/N ratio. Of course you'd want to measure S/N of the phono stage with pickup cartridge first, and then measure S/N of a couple of "blank" grooves on a couple of different LPs. Here again, I think people will be shocked to see how much higher the noise is even with good gear on new vinyl, compared to what we have become used to on digital playback - which seems to easily exceed 100 dB even with lower cost desktop DACs.
As a corollary: maybe some company can build a gizmo that will take the clean, uncolored analog line output of a Benchmark DAC and add in some of this kind of garbage to make it sound "more analog"....
The reviewer is probably not smoking crack, and probably approaches his gear review auditions pretty seriously.
So that leads me to ponder the following questions:
1. How audible is the coloration that these measurements of the R8 show it introduces?
2. If they are readily audible, is it possible that some listeners LIKE these colorations?
I wonder if adding a bunch of distortion to digital playback makes it sound "more analog" to some listeners. (I.e., reminiscent of vinyl.)
In that vein, I wonder if AMIRM could do some measurements of vinyl playback. Obviously his test set can't output a vinyl groove as an input signal. But there are LPs that have test tones on them, and just showing spectrum analysis of the output ought to provide some interesting information on just how good (or bad) the purity of signals coming off an LP is. I think a lot of people would be shocked at the levels of THD and IM. (and you'd have to look at distortion at a couple of places across the surface of the LP, as a pivoted arm's tracking error changes as a function of radius.)
You can also measure S/N ratio. Of course you'd want to measure S/N of the phono stage with pickup cartridge first, and then measure S/N of a couple of "blank" grooves on a couple of different LPs. Here again, I think people will be shocked to see how much higher the noise is even with good gear on new vinyl, compared to what we have become used to on digital playback - which seems to easily exceed 100 dB even with lower cost desktop DACs.
As a corollary: maybe some company can build a gizmo that will take the clean, uncolored analog line output of a Benchmark DAC and add in some of this kind of garbage to make it sound "more analog"....
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
Maybe a best new product from a small manufacturer (there are some great ones you've reviewed)
Ooh, and an ASR member of the year too.
It'll end up huge! Awards night with people flying in from all over the globe all vying for those ASR Golden Panther awards.
digicidal
Major Contributor
In their review of the R-8, 6Moons says "In conclusion, we were very impressed with this DAC. For the price, it offers very good sound ... if you want a versatile ladder DAC that handles both PCM and DSD, is highly adjustable and thus sounds great in the end, here's one you ought to sample."
...
I wonder if adding a bunch of distortion to digital playback makes it sound "more analog" to some listeners. (I.e., reminiscent of vinyl.)
...
As a corollary: maybe some company can build a gizmo that will take the clean, uncolored analog line output of a Benchmark DAC and add in some of this kind of garbage to make it sound "more analog"....
Well, it certainly measures like vinyl... even worse in some respects. It has enough grass in those charts to be a park or golf course... both of which are wildly popular - so who knows?
Considering almost all of the 6Moons reviews I've read were so far out of reality that I don't find that review surprising at all. I mean when you regularly swap all equipment in the signal chain as part of a subjective review of a single component... then it begs the question whether or not you could even differentiate the subject of the review at all.I think anyone willing to pay these prices for this level of performance (when so many far, far better options cost fractional amounts) is more interested in bragging to their forum buddies about getting it than actually listening to it. To me, it's the electronic equivalent of a fur coat... the components would be far more appealing as individual items rather than assembled into this crime against nature.
I have a few test LPs. I plan to run such tests at some point. And yes, I expect the measurements to be poor.
Wonderful!
Well, it certainly measures like vinyl... even worse in some respects. It has enough grass in those charts to be a park or golf course... both of which are wildly popular - so who knows?
I think anyone willing to pay these prices for this level of performance (when so many far, far better options cost fractional amounts) is more interested in bragging to their forum buddies about getting it than actually listening to it. To me, it's the electronic equivalent of a fur coat... the components would be far more appealing as individual items rather than assembled into this crime against nature.
I have to admit I like the way Audio-GD gear is built. Flawed design, but nice parts and chassis. FYI I used to have a Norton Commando 750 motorcycle, same kind of thing
For every hour of riding you had to spend 2 hours turning Whitworth wrenches.
oliveoilthansnakeoil
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Long time ago, nwavguy said that this company is a snake oil maker. Since that point, all measurements of audio-gd products proved it. What surprises me is that a lot of people are still saying these products sound well.
digicidal
Major Contributor
Long time ago, nwavguy said that this company is a snake oil maker. Since that point, all measurements of audio-gd products proved it. What surprises me is that a lot of people are still saying these products sound well.
Actually, it doesn't really surprise me all that much. What appears to be a disaster in measurements is often not that subjectively offensive - our brains are exceptionally good at filtering out most of that (and our ears suck at hearing it in most cases). Add in the fact that very, very few people ever actually compare one device to another directly - and some pretty horrid designs can still get a decent amount of traction just on aesthetics, marketing, and perceived value.
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