There's plenty of ways to ruin (or colour) the sound. The thing is, most don't want the device to do it because there's no way to fix it. Impossible to get clean sound.Colorless dacs are like sterilized milk cheese.
No bacteria and boring.
Did we go through the evils of feedback, jump to the benefits of meditation for use as a tool for audio testing, and now we're back at the sins of feedback? I’m going to apply my nihilistic approach for this one...
Hadn't checked in here for awhile but knew immediately that a broken pink panther meant for another poor AudioGD device. Glad to see I wasn't let down.
The results blew Pinky's mind (head) ... and probably legions of Audio-GD fans' too.
On the reviews I have seen of Metronome DACs (on Hi-Fi news) the thing that stands out is they have very, very high jitter 1200 psec on one, which is a couple of orders of magnitude worse that SOTA.I doubt, that you can hear the "weaknesses" of this DAC when listening to music. Do you really believe, that you can dezecz a 2nd harmonic at -60dB? I probably can't. I believe, this is maybe not state of the art, but it's good enough. All the China DACs here measure well enough.
So I don't see a reason to blow the head off a poor Pink Panther.
However, there are things my scientific head won't understand:
I happily listened many years to my SqueezeBox touch's DAC into a nicely measuring Chinese integrated amp.
I got a good deal on a used Benchmark DAC (https://www.stereophile.com/content/benchmark-dac1-usb-da-processor-headphone-amplifier-measurements). Good measurements. It sounded more present, so I kept it for 3 years.
Things changed a lot when I upgraded my amp to a Classé CP-800 II pre-amp in 2014 after my Chinese amp blew. What a revelation in details when using its internal DAC, music and stage sound so great and detailed. Benchmark is sounding very direct forward, Classé paints an image. Yet, I can't correlate it to any measurements. (https://www.stereophile.com/content/class233-cp-800-da-preamplifier). Maybe Classé measures slightly better, so this is the reason.
This year I stumbled across Amir's great reviews and was amazed to see the progress in DAC design. Out of curiosity I ordered the SMSL SU-8 in March as it was only a small invest. There is little difference to the Classé, maybe even more details, a little cleaner sounding. So I kept it with a big smile. Can't believe that a 200$ unit beats a 4000$ unit. Amazing!
A dealer stops by to show me his Lampizator Big Seven ($12,000), a tube-based DAC. Well, it also sounds good, probably measures like a nightmare. Details are lost, stage is shallower. SMSL wins easily! Dealer rolls in $1000 tubes, $700 cable, no improvement.
Wow, SMSL beats $12,000. So: Measurements do work!
Since the Topping D70 even measures better, I now plan to order it. It should even be better!
Now this week, the guy doesn't want to give up and stops by with a used 2014ish Metronome C8 DAC (was $16,000) based on AKM with Philips tubes. I don't know how it measures (probably bad), but it sounds sooo full and warm with great stage and detail. I kept it for 5 days and haven't enjoyed my music like this for a long time (I was able to switch back and forth with Classe/SMSL).
I had to return it yesterday (anyway price is out of range) and sound went back to well performing SMSL, but also to less emotion.
Now please advise. All placebo? Believe measurements? Believe the impression?
Negative feedback re-injects a sample of the amplifier’s output signal back into the input, 180 degrees out of phase, in an attempt to reduce amplifier non-linearity and distortion. In practice, negative feedback tends to slow the amplifier down and sucks the emotion and life out of the music. High feedback designs usually sound sterile, boring and lifeless, while low or zero feedback designs provide for a more immediate and natural sound.
Tube or SS output stage?Now this week, the guy doesn't want to give up and stops by with a used 2014ish Metronome C8 DAC (was $16,000) based on AKM with Philips tubes. I don't know how it measures (probably bad), but it sounds sooo full and warm with great stage and detail. I kept it for 5 days and haven't enjoyed my music like this for a long time (I was able to switch back and forth with Classe/SMSL).
I had to return it yesterday (anyway price is out of range) and sound went back to well performing SMSL, but also to less emotion.
Now please advise. All placebo? Believe measurements? Believe the impression?
Now this week, the guy doesn't want to give up ...
I doubt, that you can hear the "weaknesses" of this DAC when listening to music. Do you really believe, that you can dezecz a 2nd harmonic at -60dB?
I believe the impression. Non flat frequency response may be the answer.Now this week, the guy doesn't want to give up and stops by with a used 2014ish Metronome C8 DAC (was $16,000) based on AKM with Philips tubes. I don't know how it measures (probably bad), but it sounds sooo full and warm with great stage and detail. I kept it for 5 days and haven't enjoyed my music like this for a long time (I was able to switch back and forth with Classe/SMSL).
I had to return it yesterday (anyway price is out of range) and sound went back to well performing SMSL, but also to less emotion.
Now please advise. All placebo? Believe measurements? Believe the impression?
I believe the impression. Non flat frequency response may be the answer.
I know this article. But at the very end he writes:Nelson Pass has found that adding a little 2nd order harmonic distortion to the sound in negative phase relation to the fundamental results in giving listeners the impression that there is greater depth to the stereo image and a "richer" sound. Doing the same thing in positive phase gives many listeners the experience of a "close up, forward" sound with enhanced detail. I suspect that the tube analog stages of this fancy DAC were adding some low-order harmonic distortion. If you want the same effect from your SMSL, you can build Nelson Pass DIY H2 contraption for under $50 to add some low order distortion. See https://positive-feedback.com/audio-discourse/the-pass-h2-harmonic-generator/
The fact that the brand trumpets the presence of Amanero USB interface (which, by the way, absolutely sucks), maybe ?Is there a reason that USB only is used?
Proper blind test, or pointless comparison. Also, beware that the AGD outputs 2.5+Vrms (as most AGDs do) where the Topping is perhaps only 2V unbalanced.I'll likely be comparing with a friend's topping soon
Thanks, much obliged.Welcome,
Yeah, fair enough. I'm still relatively new to the hobby (couple years, maybe, of being more 'serious') and very new to DACs. I got the DAC, Audiophilleo and curious cable (no idea if they'd make the difference, still not sold on a USB cable making the sound better... ?) second hand fairly cheaply, just to dip my toes in, as I've primarily been using my a3080 as the DAC/media device. From there to a power amp and a set of Tannoy Precision 6.4 - all of which I was already mostly happy with.The fact that the brand trumpets the presence of Amanero USB interface (which, by the way, absolutely sucks), maybe ?
Anyway, I measured the NFB-11.38 Performance Edition and it wasn't any better than this one (Toslink in fact was better, other inputs encountered serious ground loop issues).
Haha. Likelihood of proper blind test I think is probably low. I don't really have the facility to quickly and easily switch sources. Since hearing the difference of this DAC combo, now trying to work all that out without breaking the bank.... again. At the moment I'm literally swapping RCA's at the amp, it's the picture of modern convenience!Proper blind test, or pointless comparison. Also, beware that the AGD outputs 2.5+Vrms (as most AGDs do) where the Topping is perhaps only 2V unbalanced.
Edit: some Topping indeed are capable of 2.5Vrms with RCA.