Review and Comparison of CHORD Chordette and 2Quete DACs

[March Audio]

Forgive my ignorance: does a higher output voltage confer a significant advantage in SINAD? Does output level disproportionately favor the signal over the noise floor? Would both raise proportionally? And if a higher output voltage results in a higher dynamic range or SINAD, should we be moving to higher power outputs to that effect?

Well I suppose it depends on how you define significant.
As you allude to it can improve the SNR. Significant with the Chords? Possibly not, but some of the DACs are outputting high professional levels so you are not comparing apples with apples, so the table can be a little misleading. We talked previously about colour coding the dacs that have high output voltages, just to make it clear to the reader.

Just to note that its still valid to show the full output SINAD, even if it is a high output - its a correct measurement and number. However if comparing DACs you would say turn the Chord down 3dB to match most other dacs and therefore it would probably have a smaller SINAD in real world use.

It is a little disappointing that they have decided to move against convention and use 3v instead of 2 v output level. in any side by side comparison the louder DAC will win whether its better or not.

 

[amirm]

I would have expected a very steep attenuation with all the talk of so many taps in the filter.

Me too. Here is the same for Chord Mojo:

 

[confucius_zero]

is the 2Qute a "chordette" too? it seems the words show up on the product.
https://www.whathifi.com/chord/2qute/review

 

[amirm]

is the 2Qute a "chordette" too? it seems the words show up on the product.
https://www.whathifi.com/chord/2qute/review

Yes, it is kind of confusing.

 

[Veri]

Me too. Here is the same for Chord Mojo:

View attachment 19408

Mojo's seems.. better?

 

[March Audio]

@amirm Have you tried the tap test? Should you do this with all dacs?

 

[amirm]

Mojo's seems.. better?

It is.

 

[blackmetalboon]

is the 2Qute a "chordette" too? it seems the words show up on the product.
https://www.whathifi.com/chord/2qute/review

Chordette was a complete range of products by Chord that shared the same chassis dimensions.

 

[confucius_zero]

Can amirm also write about his subjective listening notes plz?

 

[Music1969]

I hope to test one of the more current CHORD DACs in the future. Given the direction of 2Qute, I am hoping it will deliver exceptional performance showing that custom DACs need not underperform.

Hi armir

With your new testing setup, could you perhaps re-do the Chord Hugo2 measurements (previously done with prev measuring setup)?

If you're able to get a unit from your local store again.

 

[Tatteredmidnight]

Well I suppose it depends on how you define significant.
As you allude to it can improve the SNR. Significant with the Chords? Possibly not, but some of the DACs are outputting high professional levels so you are not comparing apples with apples, so the table can be a little misleading. We talked previously about colour coding the dacs that have high output voltages, just to make it clear to the reader.

Just to note that its still valid to show the full output SINAD, even if it is a high output - its a correct measurement and number. However if comparing DACs you would say turn the Chord down 3dB to match most other dacs and therefore it would probably have a smaller SINAD in real world use.

It is a little disappointing that they have decided to move against convention and use 3v instead of 2 v output level. in any side by side comparison the louder DAC will win whether its better or not.

Thanks for elaborating. I agree that normalizing on a standard output level would be ideal, and I've been following the various conversations around it. It seems like, as is the case with so many things, it is dependent on circumstances weather an increased output voltage would have a significant impact on measured performance.

An equally, if not bigger concern, from my point of view would be the likelihood of clipping on the input of an amp/pre at those much higher levels if the endpoint is not designed for it. I hope Amir can establish a protocol to help provide that context on the graphs. Thanks for taking the time to answer my question!

 

[Tatteredmidnight]

If you reduce the voltage by .707 and noise floor is unchanged, then distortion and noise relative to signal would be 3 db closer or less SINAD by 3 db. 3 volts to 2 volts would be very close to 3 db lower. .67 vs .707 as a ratio.

Now sometimes, when SINAD is dominated by the level of the distortion harmonics, lowering voltage by 3 db might lower harmonic distortion by several db which might leave SINAD mostly dominated by noise actually giving a better SINAD number. If you were using a DAC in your system and never needed it to exceed 2 volts then that is a more desirable result. The higher voltage with less SINAD would be of no consequence to you.

In this case Amir said lowering digitally by 3 db made SINAD worse.

Great explanation. Noise floor dominated vs dominated by harmonics makes total sense. This clarifies the comments @March Audio made about the importance/impact of noise floor on these measurements. As an absolute minimum, it defines the lower boundary of the dynamic range. If that is the predominant limiting factor in SINAD performance, the increase in signal level would yield improved SINAD by masking the high noise floor with an even higher signal level.

If the result is dominated by harmonics, then the signal level would be proportionate and the two would move together.

Thanks for taking the time and answering my question!

 

[sonci]

Apart from measuring, the real problem is using high output dacs. Not all amplifiers like more then 2v input,

 

[Jimster480]

The performance for the price is nothing stellar...

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

Apart from measuring, the real problem is using high output dacs. Not all amplifiers like more then 2v input,

That is why there are volume controls. How can that be a problem?

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

It is a little disappointing that they have decided to move against convention and use 3v instead of 2 v output level. in any side by side comparison the louder DAC will win whether its better or not.

This can only be an issue if one does not listen. Since they build them to listen to, this should not be a real problem.

 

[elira]

That is why there are volume controls. How can that be a problem?

It the signal goes directly to some sort of attenuation (like a pot) then there’s no issue. But if the signal goes to an input stage that wasn’t designed for 3V inputs (like a buffer or something) it may cause problems.

 

[JJB70]

I can see that if people like the sort of highly stylised and screwy looking case work used by Chord and have the money there probably is a pride of ownership to be found in their products. On the other hand if you just want an audibly transparent DAC then you really don't need to spend a lot on a DAC.

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

It the signal goes directly to some sort of attenuation (like a pot) then there’s no issue. But if the signal goes to an input stage that wasn’t designed for 3V inputs (like a buffer or something) it may cause problems.

It would be a pretty poor design imo if there was no headroom and would overload so easily.

 

[Jimster480]

That is why there are volume controls. How can that be a problem?

Because like with the Chord products, there are not volume controls.
Only digital volume on your computer which will reduce the performance of the DAC further.
Some amps do not like 3V input and will clip prematurely or have other issues like increased distortion, etc.