Revel to Genelec | System-wide change?

[Martini]

I've been giving somewhat serious consideration to changing my system up. My system is currently comprised of a Mac Mini as music server into a Benchmark stack: Dac3B, LA4, dual-mono AHB2s, which feed Revel F328Bes. I love my system, it is great gear, but the room it's in comprises it a good bit, even with Dirac. The room is spare mid-sized bedroom, and the height of the Revel has me pushing the listening position back close to the rear wall. And even with the speakers tilted forward about as much as I could with the adjustment spikes (the Leaning Towers-lol), the tweeters still aim a good 6-8-in. above my ears. Also, the isosceles triangle layout doesn't present the widest soundstage. Those little quibbles have had me thinking of changing to the Genelec. I have pair of 8030c on my office desk, and enjoy them. I was thinking of switching to the Genelec 8351B monitors and a 7370 subwoofer or maybe the 8361A (and maybe the sub)? With proper height stands this would get drivers on axis and should allow me to shorten my listening distance from its current 10-ft, thus widening the soundstage. It would also allow me to remove the audio rack standing between the speaker, since the amps would now be in the speakers and I could locate the Mac/Dac/Pre combo elsewhere. However, I'd gain that ugly sub, so not all a win.

I gotta say, I do have some emotional/intellectual attachment to the AHB2s. I like well designed gear. But in the current room, I didn't need the dual monos anyway. It was a spontaneous buy when there was talk of moving to a larger place, and wanting to beat a Benchmark price increase. Another challenge would be selling the Revels; shipping cost for those big crates always dampens enthusiasm and shrinks the market.

Also, any thoughts on Genelec GLM vs Dirac? I do have some usage issues with Dirac. The Dirac Processor occasionally crashes, requiring it to be relaunched and/or Mac reboots. The room correction is limited to what I can source through the Mac, so if I use the Panasonic 820 to watch a movie or play a CD, I've got no correction. The GLM system could solve that issue; which would be nice. I just don't know how well its correction compares to Dirac.

Any thoughts/advice on possibly making the switch, would be much appreciated.

 

[GXAlan]

It would also allow me to remove the audio rack standing between the speaker, since the amps would now be in the speakers and I could locate the Mac/Dac/Pre combo elsewhere. However, I'd gain that ugly sub, so not all a win.

One of the hardest things about moving to a fully active setup is cabling and power on triggering. Lots of solutions but it’s one new thing to think about.

The benefits of Genelec and Neumann subs are smaller than the benefits of their monitors. You can get really good subwoofers for less money, and in my opinion, there is no replacement for displacement* (which is cabinet volume not woofer surface area or even woofer Xmax). The Power Sound Audio subs are really nice and simple designs that sound great.

Another challenge would be selling the Revels; shipping cost for those big crates always dampens enthusiasm and shrinks the market.

TMRaudio typically buys Revels and they also do consignments if you want a little more value. You always make more money selling it on your own, but TMR is a good solution to just move the product.

if I use the Panasonic 820 to watch a movie or play a CD, I've got no correction. The GLM system could solve that issue; which would be nice. I just don't know how well its correction compares to Dirac.

If Dirac ART is released at a competitive price, it should be superior to GLM. The differences for 2 channel between all the systems can be pretty small in blind testing. Think about how easy FR irregularities are masked in stereo. The FR variability is way bigger than the EQ variability between two good system.

Something like the Onkyo Icon P80 is supposed to offer Dirac ART and HDMI ARC which could make a it a compelling solution with active speakers…

Without Dirac ART, there are a lot more options out there.

 

[tifune]

I've owned both; the Revel Be series are the best passive speaker I've ever heard. If I had room for them, id certainly own the 226s. But at the price point you're pushing towards (8351+7370), I suspect you will get more benefit from something like D&D 8C. That said, if you're set on Genelec the 8361 are still best of the best. Either way, moving closer to your speakers can certainly do things room correction cannot.

GLM vs Dirac - I've heard lots of opinions, I've not seen a ton of evidence. Maybe the truth is out there?

 

[kyuu]

The benefits of Genelec and Neumann subs are smaller than the benefits of their monitors. You can get really good subwoofers for less money, and in my opinion, there is no replacement for displacement* (which is cabinet volume not woofer surface area or even woofer Xmax). The Power Sound Audio subs are really nice and simple designs that sound great.

Displacement? Cabinet volume? Why settle, just get the 7382a and use it in place of your dresser or entertainment center.

 

[LTig]

@Martini: Why not just try it? Put the 8351b on a chair or something else to get them to the proper height.

 

[Mort]

GLM with a subwoofer is better than DiracLive imo.

 

[mj30250]

There's certainly nothing wrong with switching to an active system, especially Genelec, but if you like the Revels have you considered simply moving to the smaller F226Bes? This would bring the tweeters down to a sensible height for the room and the savings could be used to purchase a quality sub and some manner of Dirac preamp/processor.

 

[Martini]

Displacement? Cabinet volume? Why settle, just get the 7382a and use it in place of your dresser or entertainment center.

LOL, that's a lot of speaker.

 

[Martini]

GLM with a subwoofer is better than DiracLive imo.

In what regards?

 

[Martini]

There's certainly nothing wrong with switching to an active system, especially Genelec, but if you like the Revels have you considered simply moving to the smaller F226Bes? This would bring the tweeters down to a sensible height for the room and the savings could be used to purchase a quality sub and some manner of Dirac preamp/processor.

I had intended to get the 228BE, but due to the shortages caused by the pandemic, I was left with the 328BE. At the time, I did not want to mess with a subwoofer, and the 226s looked a little tipsy to me due to their narrow base.

 

[Kyle_PL]

In what regards?

GLM can add latency to monitors, when they are closer than subwoofer (to allign time in listening point). The autocalibration in GLM are very smart (dont bumping nulls - bumping deep nulls by DSP is bad for amplifiers and speakers mechanic => strong bump=big problem).
GLM is very good, not only for sound, but for hardware (speakers) too.

 

[srrxr71]

If you have the means (seems like you do) then Trinnov imho is the best DSP to layer on top of GLM.

 

[Mort]

Why would you layer DSP onto another DSP? That's asking for a mess imo. I did run DiracLive after GLM, and it added nothing.

 

[srrxr71]

Why would you layer DSP onto another DSP? That's asking for a mess imo. I did run DiracLive after GLM, and it added nothing.

GLM does my sub integration since i use Genelec subs. It also corrects to flat in my room. Then Trinnov does the phase correction and allows me to draw my target curve.

I can easily switch it on or off and compare on the fly.

One look at the Trinnov mic and you will understand that it does what GLM cannot.

My one other option is to use only Trinnov to integrate either my Genelec subs or my Rhythmik subs.

Basically i’m starting from a flat corrected system with Genelec and Trinnov does additional correction on that.

Also for what it’s worth Lars Fox who produced the latest Rolling Stones album also does the same thing. I hope he knows what he’s doing.

 

[Mort]

I found GLM phase correction to be superior.

 

[srrxr71]

I found GLM phase correction to be superior.

I’m happy you’re happy. I’m happy with what I have. I’m sure Lars Fox and others in the field who use Trinnov are happy with what they have.

 

[darth]

Are you connected to the Genelecs via digital or analog? Does trinnov do corrections in the digital domain or post conversion? Curious

Did post something in the other thread that I learnt recently

Genelec Owners Lounge and Discussion

Makes sense right? At modest volume, unsighted, I couldn't tell 8361a from 8341a. Were there subs attached? That would make it even tougher. No subs attached to the 8361a, just w371a. The 8381a were running in 2.0. I’m starting to think that Genelec has come pretty close/the closest to...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[srrxr71]

Are you connected to the Genelecs via digital or analog? Does trinnov do corrections in the digital domain or post conversion? Curious

Did post something in the other thread that I learnt recently

Genelec Owners Lounge and Discussion

Makes sense right? At modest volume, unsighted, I couldn't tell 8361a from 8341a. Were there subs attached? That would make it even tougher. No subs attached to the 8361a, just w371a. The 8381a were running in 2.0. I’m starting to think that Genelec has come pretty close/the closest to...

www.audiosciencereview.com

So it goes from Topping D10s to Trinnov in digital. Then it goes AES3 to the the Genelecs. With Trinnov you can switch on or off the 3 corrections it does at will and compare. Also you get a FR and phase graph in the end.

I can get them both quite flat on some calibrations. On other calibration the phase can go 180 degrees around 40Hz or so.

 

[jonfitch]

Genelec the Ones also have a substantively different sound presentation than the Revels because they have this unique quirk on their power response. You can see the treble looks kind of recessed in the Sound Power, and there's a huge gap up in volume from 1000hz moving right to left on the graph up to 600hz. This kind of creates a sensation of being in the front row of a presentation by overemphasizing percussion instruments, whereas I find with Revel Performa Be you are sitting a lot further back in the presentation and it being alot more airy and spacious. If you aren't used to this kind of presentation it can sound kind of claustrophobic. It's very different sounding than Revel. I would definitely demo the speakers first before committing to them because it may not be your cup of tea. I found it a real struggle to EQ this behavior out with GLM or Dirac Live.