Revel Salon2 vs Genelec 8351B - Blind Test Preparations

[mkawa]

Well funny coincidence, I’m in the process of moving to NYC right now actually. But sorry even if I wanted to sell them, I can’t say I’d let them go for $1k

If you think spending more than $1k on speakers is insane, I’m curious if you’re ever actually heard any of these speakers. It’s possible you don’t know what you’re missing. I’m not saying you need to spend $10k on speakers as an audiophile, but I can guarantee you there are major improvements to be had between $1k vs $3k. But perhaps this is a topic best for another thread.

that comment about 1k was what my family thinks, not me. hah! 1 to 2k gets you from 8020s to 8040s, and 2 to 6 gets you from 8040s to 8341s. world of difference just looking at one range of monitors. but i tried to convince my brother that maybe he should match his 5k projector setup with oohhh maybe some on-wall 6 ways and a couple subs and suddenly i'm speaking french to a brit. sooo sonos soundbar it is. i don't think he paid any less either, ironically.

anyway, GLM really seems to excel at room correction with monitors in clear zones combined with GLM subs. I wasn't crazy about it when i saw it demoed in a 2 channel 60o setup, as my REW corrections seemed like they produced more accurate post-eq measurements, but i can definitely see the advantage of individual channel setup in a multichannel configuration.

 

[Senior NEET Engineer]

@mkawa FWIW, I haven't notice much improvements going up from $100/speaker to $3000/speaker with subwoofer. Gear experience can help make preferences more discriminating, but I think everyone just has their limit at which point improvements are marginal.

 

[mkt]

When I’m fully done moving (within a few weeks), I am probably going to set up a room with the 8350B’s as fronts and the 8330A’s as rear surrounds. I think this would actually be the most fascinating experiment to compare, versus a blind test at this point.

My experience comparing multichannel (5.[0,1]) and stereo mixes of the same material (mostly classical) is that I always prefer multichannel and that depending on the mix, the apparent contribution of the surrounds is often modest or negligible. I am team center channel, as opposed to the quad or phantom center folks. (Handy samples of formats here http://www.2l.no/hires/). I don't have the setup to try up-mixing.

 

[echopraxia]

@mkawa FWIW, I haven't notice much improvements going up from $100/speaker to $3000/speaker with subwoofer. Gear experience can help make preferences more discriminating, but I think everyone just has their limit at which point improvements are marginal.

That’s a surprising claim. Unless you are aware of some incredible $100/each speakers with magical capabilities, I don’t see how this is possible: All such cheap speakers I’ve seen can barely reach 96db without serious audible distortion arising, let alone 100-110db. So we don’t even need to begin talking about sound quality before already ruling out your claim as impossible or lacking exposure to better speakers (e.g. if you simply never actually tried hearing better speakers performing at much louder SPLs without distortion, such as playing content with high dynamic range), given that most people (independent of sound quality sensitivity) can definitely detect when a speaker distorts horribly, and obviously everyone can detect when a speaker physically blows up (which is what might happen to most in this price range if you try to push reference-level SPL for a movie).

That said of course I agree you’re right that everyone has a different level of sound quality they’re capable of hearing. This becomes pretty readily apparent when you find some people unable to hear the difference between or understand why anyone would care whether their movies are playing from their iPhone speaker or a proper theater sound system. Just as some are blind to the difference between ancient TVs vs modern 4K HDR content. But for the most part, these people are obviously not relevant to this industry which specifically caters to those who can and do hear/see and appreciate the difference.

 

[Spkrdctr]

Since this is ASR. After the last 26 pages of comments. Just buy whatever sounds best to you! Now, back to the real discussion....

I couldn't resist!

 

[Madhuski]

That’s a surprising claim. Unless you are aware of some incredible $100/each speakers with magical capabilities, I don’t see how this is possible: All such cheap speakers I’ve seen can barely reach 96db without serious audible distortion arising, let alone 100-110db. So we don’t even need to begin talking about sound quality before already ruling out your claim as impossible or lacking exposure to better speakers (e.g. if you simply never actually tried hearing better speakers performing at much louder SPLs without distortion, such as playing content with high dynamic range), given that most people (independent of sound quality sensitivity) can definitely detect when a speaker distorts horribly, and obviously everyone can detect when a speaker physically blows up (which is what might happen to most in this price range if you try to push reference-level SPL for a movie).

That said of course I agree you’re right that everyone has a different level of sound quality they’re capable of hearing. This becomes pretty readily apparent when you find some people unable to hear the difference between or understand why anyone would care whether their movies are playing from their iPhone speaker or a proper theater sound system. Just as some are blind to the difference between ancient TVs vs modern 4K HDR content. But for the most part, these people are obviously not relevant to this industry which specifically caters to those who can and do hear/see and appreciate the difference.

Yeah, diminishing returns certainly is there, $100 seems a bit low. I think for me it starts around the $1000/speaker.

Coast to coast is quite the move btw!

 

[RichB]

I’m definitely not closing the door to doing a blind test at some point in the future, I just will prefer to wait and figure out the best selection of speakers and test procedure at some point to generate the best and most useful contribution.


When I’m fully done moving (within a few weeks), I am probably going to set up a room with the 8350B’s as fronts and the 8330A’s as rear surrounds. I think this would actually be the most fascinating experiment to compare, versus a blind test at this point.

The hypothesis makes a lot of sense but I really want to test it: Whether the vast soundstage effect of the Salon2’s (that makes me prefer it for certain kinds of music) can be replicated with up-mixing stereo to multichannel.

I have all the speakers necessary to do this. I really want to try this because IMO it’s by far the most interesting and useful test: if 4 channels of Genelecs achieve a music experience better than the Salon2’s in every way, then that’s fantastic — I will have confirmed a hypothesis about the spacious soundstage, and achieved yet another “level up“ in sound quality But if the soundstage does not surpass the Salon2’s, then while this will be a mystery, it will be a very interesting one and no doubt generate a lot of interesting speculation and potential future experiments here!

This will probably all happen in a few weeks, and I’ll likely make a new thread for it since it won’t (initially at least) be blind test. Nor could it ever be, I think, since you can’t really hide the existence of surround speakers from being consciously heard I think.

I can say that option C, 5 Salon2s, has an absolutely outstanding soundstage. Recent movies like Yesterday, Bohemian Rhapsody, and A Star is Born have outstanding multi-channel sound.

- Rich

 

[echopraxia]

I can say that option C, 5 Salon2s, has an absolutely outstanding soundstage. Recent movies like Yesterday, Bohemian Rhapsody, and A Star is Born have outstanding multi-channel sound.

- Rich

Yes now that would be a fascinating comparison: multichannel Genelec 8351B’s versus multichannel Salon2’s

Of course I do still think 4-5x Genelec’s vs 2x Salon2’s would be an interesting comparison because of the price point similarity (you can buy a setup consisting of 2x Genelec 8351B’s + 2x Genelec 8330C’s + 2 subs, for more or less the same price of a pair of Salon2’s).

 

[Senior NEET Engineer]

That’s a surprising claim. Unless you are aware of some incredible $100/each speakers with magical capabilities, I don’t see how this is possible: All such cheap speakers I’ve seen can barely reach 96db without serious audible distortion arising, let alone 100-110db. So we don’t even need to begin talking about sound quality before already ruling out your claim as impossible or lacking exposure to better speakers (e.g. if you simply never actually tried hearing better speakers performing at much louder SPLs without distortion, such as playing content with high dynamic range), given that most people (independent of sound quality sensitivity) can definitely detect when a speaker distorts horribly, and obviously everyone can detect when a speaker physically blows up (which is what might happen to most in this price range if you try to push reference-level SPL for a movie).

That said of course I agree you’re right that everyone has a different level of sound quality they’re capable of hearing. This becomes pretty readily apparent when you find some people unable to hear the difference between or understand why anyone would care whether their movies are playing from their iPhone speaker or a proper theater sound system. Just as some are blind to the difference between ancient TVs vs modern 4K HDR content. But for the most part, these people are obviously not relevant to this industry which specifically caters to those who can and do hear/see and appreciate the difference.

Infinity P362 regularly went for $200/pair. No issues with distortion.

High end audio industry mainly caters to people that have gear obsession. The target demographic is already suffering from hearing loss.

 

[amirm]

Let's stay on the topic of the OP speakers please.

 

[amirm]

FYI I have an 8351B in for review. Planning on testing it soon.....

 

[daftcombo]

FYI I have an 8351B in for review. Planning on testing it soon.....

I'm refreshing the reviews section of the site like an hawk for it.

 

[sweetchaos]

FYI I have an 8351B in for review. Planning on testing it soon.....

 

[preload]

FYI I have an 8351B in for review. Planning on testing it soon.....

OOOOOOOOOOOOH!

 

[Pearljam5000]

FYI I have an 8351B in for review. Planning on testing it soon.....

"Soon" is not soon enough

 

[samysound]

FYI I have an 8351B in for review. Planning on testing it soon.....

woohooo!

 

[MZKM]

I'm refreshing the reviews section of the site like an hawk for it.

Amir sent me the NFS data for a speaker on Monday; he’s gotta find the time to review it (let’s just say, I wouldn’t make a large effort to schedule a listening session either).

 

[mkawa]

what?! don't be cagey, spill!

 

[q3cpma]

(let’s just say, I wouldn’t make a large effort to schedule a listening session either).

That good or that bad?

 

[MZKM]

That good or that bad?

It’s a $60 speaker. Not horrendous, but still.