Revel Salon2, B&W 802 D3, or similarly priced speakers + Benchmark chain?

[SplitTime]

It was a bit surreal listening to him talk about how they do their own processors... not as of late 2019 - they shut down the entire custom CPU team in Austin. The entire Semi industry is like mouth watering wolves looking at the TAM automotive can provide. But I think many (except NXP who’s been in the business for many years, under some name) do not really understand the costs of extremely low DPM and very long term reliability — orders of magnitude different from cell phones. It’ll be interesting to see what they really do with Harman and if they end up killing it ... slowly ... killing me softly ...

 

[Todesengel]

@blueone there is speculation that the entire Ultima line is out of production with all sales now being from existing stock. Only the Studio 2 is officially discontinued. I agree Samsung bought Harman to get the connected technology. It's probably going to find uses beyond cars.

Oh man, this is news to me. I didn't even know about the Samsung acquisition. Now it makes sense about the new Mark Levinson gear going plastic... no more bead blasted aluminum buttons on new gear. Sad times indeed.

 

[DonH56]

Would you share which Rythmik sub you’re using? I was just looking at the FV18 on data-bass... Thanks again!

My room is modest in size but with significant nulls due to the dimensions. I use four F12's in a "front" and "rear" pair positioned to help cancel the nulls. This works much better sonically for me than a single larger sub and is also more aesthetically pleasing. More output than I need but optimizing the frequency response was the goal, not output.

HTH - Don

 

[thewas]

I am enjoying my 800D3, I am not sure what everyone is talking about a 'house sound'. In my room without EQ they measure relatively flat (sweep attached).

With a vertical range of 400dB everything looks quite flat, around 50dB is more common.
Also a flatish sum at the listeners position doesn't automatically means they sound neutral, which is true when the directivity is not smooth (like on all later B&W models). I have a pair of current B&Ws in my loudspeaker collection too and they measure quite flat at the listeners position as they quite cleverly compensate variations of their directivity with variations in their direct sound, but that doesn't sound the same like a loudspeaker with the same frequency response at the listeners position but having both a neutral direct sound and smooth directivity. Its quite a nice and euphonic voicing I must admit though.

 

[QMuse]

In my room without EQ they measure relatively flat (sweep attached).

Every speaker measures flat if you adjust vertical scale to cover 350dB (-200 to 150).

 

[QMuse]

Currently travelling and my laptop has only a 1080p display, I am not aware of how to capture 0-20kHz in REW without zooming out (thus the 50dB scale). I have attached bass response 0-200Hz with 10dB increments. In the zone that matters for 'boomy' bass [50-80Hz] I am only running 10-13dB hot, which isn't that much- IIRC human hearing isn't as sensitive down there. I'm big into home theater and this type of boost is quite common. The real fun stuff happens <30Hz where I run +30dB (room response assisted). If you want to feel your music this is where the magic happens.

To each their own- obviously I prefer to run my system this way because it sounds best to me. The Funks have amazing EQ capability you can make their response whatever you want

Well, if this is the way you like it cannot of course be argued, but this response certainly cannot be called linear as it swings within 30dB range in 20Hz-200Hz.

P.S. Use this button to adjust limits and scale on graphs

 

[vavan]

I am not aware of how to capture 0-20kHz in REW

there's button in the right bottom corner on the graph

 

[Rja4000]

For that kind of money, I'd definitely consider active speakers instead.
(And even active speaker systems, including subs)

There are significant benefits to active crossover and active driver control that you probably can't beat with passive components, even the best of them.

 

[Bear123]

Agree with what others have posted....a 3-400 dB scale makes a FR graph meaningless. The point is to scale the graph in such a way that it gives a good visual representation of what we hear with enough resolution to clearly see +/- 3 dB variances in response. For example, here is the result of the Audyssey calibration of my dual subs. This is the average response across all seats of my wide sectional:

I really need to spend a little time measuring my combined speaker and sub response in order to see how things look around crossover but just haven't had much time. So I'm pretty much blindly hoping Audyssey is doing a reasonably good job here. Based on how it did for my subs, I'm thinking it is probably pretty decent.

 

[Sal1950]

I suspect that there isn't an Ultima3 line on the horizon at all. Samsung seems to be focusing Harman's resources on automotive systems.

Say it ain't so Joe.

B&W's = Exterminate, Exterminate. LOL

I am happy with my Salon2/Rythmik sub speaker array.

You should be! Who I gotta kill to get a multich rig like that. LOL

 

[blueone]

I am happy with my Salon2/Rythmik sub speaker array.

YMMV - Don

And that is all that really counts. And since you're a musician you know what unamplified acoustic instruments sound like. I'm always surprised by audiophiles who obsess over accuracy but admit they haven't heard live music in a long time.

 

[anmpr1]

...since you're a musician you know what unamplified acoustic instruments sound like. I'm always surprised by audiophiles who obsess over accuracy but admit they haven't heard live music in a long time.

When one's 'reference' for listening enjoyment is a barrage of alarm clocks off of a Pink Floyd recording, it doesn't matter. I don't slum the audio salons anymore, but when I did it was pretty common for the salesman to bring out the Dark Side of the Moon CD and 'let 'er rip'. Even today you read about that track in component 'reviews' on the subjective sites.

As far as being a musician? Depends. If one's job (or hobby) is playing a Stratocaster through a Marshall stack, or if one plays gong and drum in a Chinese opera troupe, their reference speaker, what they perceive as suitable for sound reproduction as a musician, might differ.

 

[blueone]

If one's job (or hobby) is playing a Stratocaster through a Marshall stack, or if one plays gong and drum in a Chinese opera troupe, their reference speaker, what they perceive as suitable for sound reproduction as a musician, might differ.

I did say unamplified acoustic instruments. A Strat through a Marshall doesn't count.

 

[anmpr1]

I did say unamplified acoustic instruments. A Strat through a Marshall doesn't count.

And since you're a musician you know what unamplified acoustic instruments sound like.

The idea that a musician would know more than a non-musician about the sound of music, unamplified or otherwise, could be true. But is not necessarily the case. There is no intrinsic reason that a non-musician would or could not know as much.

I remember how back in the day it was Stereophile, or maybe Harry Pearson's magazine, that had a musician--an oboe player or something, who reviewed amplifiers. The shtick was that since he played an instrument he would ipso facto be able to distinguish a 'good' preamp from a 'bad' one. Someone wrote in, commenting that, "Well...he would certainly be expected to know how an oboe in the middle of his orchestra woodwind section would sound like, up close and personal. But would he know what it was like in Row C Seat 20 of the auditorium?"

 

[blueone]

The idea that a musician would know more than a non-musician about the sound of music, unamplified or otherwise, could be true. But is not necessarily the case. There is no intrinsic reason that a non-musician would or could not know as much.

That really wasn't the point I was attempting to make, apparently without enough clarity. My intent was that musicians who play acoustic instruments are more likely to hear real acoustic instruments more often, so they have a better idea of what they actually sound like. I find, for example, that hearing a violin in a residential room is an interesting experience. The same with a flute, an oboe, a trombone, etc. Drums are a bit different, since they're often so loud that many audio systems have trouble reproducing them properly.

 

[anmpr1]

I find, for example, that hearing a violin in a residential room is an interesting experience.

I get what you are saying, and don't disagree. I remember auditioning a violin composition. After the performance someone commented, "Those highs sound really harsh and steely! Made my hair stand on end!" I replied, "Harsh and steely? ...umm, any idea what an E string is made of?"

Some folks claim that the mark of a loudspeaker is to reproduce the sound of the performance (actually, the recording) in a natural and authentic way. But really, most folks just want a small 'picture' of the performance. And one that is not too aggressive but has an overall 'nice' sound to it. At a level they can adjust. Does anyone really want John Coltrane in their living room, playing with natural volume? Most would say, "John. Can you tone it back a little!"

Peter Aczel always said that if two loudspeakers sound different then one, or both, are not telling you the truth. But I think that with most audiofools it's like that Jack Nicholson movie. Most people can't handle the truth.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

@blueone there is speculation that the entire Ultima line is out of production with all sales now being from existing stock. Only the Studio 2 is officially discontinued. I agree Samsung bought Harman to get the connected technology. It's probably going to find uses beyond cars.

I may have been the originator of that speculation and I based it on observations. I have no direct source information on the topic and I hope that I will be shown to be mistaken.

 

[Dimifoot]

The point is to scale the graph in such a way that it gives a good visual representation of what we hear with enough resolution to clearly see +/- 3 dB variances in response. For example, here is the result of the Audyssey calibration of my dual subs. This is the average response across all seats of my wide sectional:

We also need to note the Smoothing info on the graph.
For the LFE-below 150hz graph, no smoothing is preferred

 

[QMuse]

We also need to note the Smoothing info on the graph.
For the LFE-below 150hz graph, no smoothing is preferred

Your avatar graph looks very smoothed to me.

1/12 or 1/6 smoothing is ok for me but it would be interesting to know if graph is based on a single sweep or RTA pink noise MMM.

 

[Kouioui]

If I had to take aesthetics, a significant other, or surround into consideration I'd be taking a serious look and listen to these: