Revel PerformaBe F226Be Floorstanding Speaker Review

[q3cpma]

Thanks a lot! Almost perfect except the strange (because not very SPL dependant) 1% H3 peak at ~2.7 kHz and the arguably negligible little 4~7 kHz horizontal directivity jiggle. Definitely one of the best passives, but still not without faults; and a bit too expensive when the total price (with an Hypex NC252MP, for example) being too near D&D, Genelec, Neumann for my taste and way over the coming GGNTKT M1.

 

[q3cpma]

If you are paying retail price for Revel speakers you are doing it wrong. (At least in the U.S.) This is true of most luxury, dealer-bought speakers. I was able to get a significant price reduction during a sale a month ago. I'm not saying that they are cheap, but I certainly could not afford them at $7k.

Well, maybe, but I can only compare the official prices. Guess it compensates for being an US exclusivity.

 

[hardisj]

While I agree there are some areas that aren't "perfect" about how this speaker measures, to me this naturally leads to "how perfect is perfect?" or "what does perfect sound like?".

Having had the opportunity to listen to these in two different rooms, I was quite impressed with them. I should be, at $7k/pair. Sure. But that doesn't take away from the fact that I was.

As hard as I tried, I couldn't find any real faults with this speaker. Very neutral speaker that is very pleasing at both low and high volume. Yea, if they would extend lower than the measured 50Hz (approximate) that would be cool. But that's nonsensical of a speaker this size. And, as we see in other HARMAN spins of the larger PerformaBe, that would result in other issues. So it's a game of trade offs.

This speaker is extremely linear on and off-axis, has great dispersion both horizontally and vertically and had no problem exceeding 100dB at 4 meters in my living room and home theater. Objectively and subjectively, this, IMHO, is a top-flight speaker.

Frankly, I was so impressed by this speaker's subjective performance, I can't help but wonder what would "better" sound like and how would that also measure? Are we to the point of picking nits that don't really matter or are small enough in scale that would ultimately be a 'wash' as there is surely some slight user preference as well? For me to be able to answer this question will take not only more time but more opportunities. Opportunities to measure and audition other speakers of high-regard. Opportunities that I have tried to attain by reaching out to different manufacturers to see if they would be willing to loan me test samples (Kef, Vandersteen, to name a couple), who haven't replied. On the bright side, D&D will be sending me a pair of the DD8C to review but the state of everything these days is causing delays.

 

[tuga]

While I agree there are some areas that aren't "perfect" about how this speaker measures, to me this naturally leads to "how perfect is perfect?" or "what does perfect sound like?".

Having had the opportunity to listen to these in two different rooms, I was quite impressed with them. I should be, at $7k/pair. Sure. But that doesn't take away from the fact that I was.

As hard as I tried, I couldn't find any real faults with this speaker. Yea, if would extend lower than the measured 50Hz (approximate) that would be cool. But that's nonsensical of a speaker this size. And, as we see in other HARMAN spins of the larger PerformaBe, that would result in other issues. So it's a game of trade offs.

This speaker is extremely linear on and off-axis, has great dispersion both horizontally and vertically and had no problem exceeding 100dB at 4 meters in my living room and home theater. Objectively and subjectively, this, IMHO, is a top-flight speaker.

Frankly, I was so impressed by this speaker's subjective performance, I can't help but wonder what would "better" sound like and how would that also measure? Are we to the point of picking nits that don't really matter or are small enough in scale that would ultimately be a 'wash' as there is surely some slight user preference as well? For me to be able to answer this question will take not only more time but more opportunities. Opportunities to measure and audition other speakers of high-regard. Opportunities that I have tried to attain by reaching out to different manufacturers to see if they would be willing to loan me test samples (Kef, Vandersteen, to name a couple), who haven't replied. On the bright side, D&D will be sending me a pair of the DD8C to review but the state of everything these days is causing delays.

Regarding your impressions, what are your references (best overall and best you've listened at home)?


I'd love to see measurements of the F206.

Look at Stereophile's of the F228 and the F208 I am not convinced that the former is the better speaker... And it's cheaper too.

 

[hardisj]

Regarding your impressions, what are your references (best overall and best you've listened at home)?


I'd love to see measurements of the F206.

Look at Stereophile's of the F228 and the F208 I am not convinced that the former is the better speaker... And it's cheaper too.

When I traveled for work I would often go to the local hi-fi stores and demo what they have. I've been to some really nice ones around the country. As an aside, I'm always surprised how helpful the sales associates are with me... I always tell them "no way I can afford this stuff, I just wanted to dream" and they have almost always hooked me up with extended demos and/or good conversation.

Back on track... I don't recall the specific models. Wilson, B&W, Kef, etc. $200k worth of stereo amplifiers. Huge rooms, small rooms. Expensive DACs, cheap Blu-ray players. I heard a set of TAD speakers in El Paso once at a store that is out of business. Those were pretty sick.

Up to this point, the best I have heard at home is now the Revel F226Be. Before that was probably the Selah I reviewed last month. I used to own a pair of Kef R700 that I adored but I don't really remember how they sounded other than I really liked 'em. I don't get the opportunity to get really nice gear in my home without test motives because I can't afford more than entry-level hi-fi. My own HT is all pro audio JBL stuff literally from the old theater in town. It's not hi-fi but it's pretty badass to have 118dB sensitivity speakers from my childhood movie-watching days in my own home.

 

[q3cpma]

While I agree there are some areas that aren't "perfect" about how this speaker measures, to me this naturally leads to "how perfect is perfect?" or "what does perfect sound like?".

Having had the opportunity to listen to these in two different rooms, I was quite impressed with them. I should be, at $7k/pair. Sure. But that doesn't take away from the fact that I was.

As hard as I tried, I couldn't find any real faults with this speaker. Yea, if would extend lower than the measured 50Hz (approximate) that would be cool. But that's nonsensical of a speaker this size. And, as we see in other HARMAN spins of the larger PerformaBe, that would result in other issues. So it's a game of trade offs.

This speaker is extremely linear on and off-axis, has great dispersion both horizontally and vertically and had no problem exceeding 100dB at 4 meters in my living room and home theater. Objectively and subjectively, this, IMHO, is a top-flight speaker.

Frankly, I was so impressed by this speaker's subjective performance, I can't help but wonder what would "better" sound like and how would that also measure? Are we to the point of picking nits that don't really matter or are small enough in scale that would ultimately be a 'wash' as there is surely some slight user preference as well? For me to be able to answer this question will take not only more time but more opportunities. Opportunities to measure and audition other speakers of high-regard. Opportunities that I have tried to attain by reaching out to different manufacturers to see if they would be willing to loan me test samples (Kef, Vandersteen, to name a couple), who haven't replied. On the bright side, D&D will be sending me a pair of the DD8C to review but the state of everything these days is causing delays.

Well, you know the place, it's all about nitpicking. Personally, if that peak had been H2, I would have said "perfect as far as traditional speaker design goes", but this probably goes over the masking limits of simple tones if H3 is symmetrical (as in 900 Hz and 8.1 kHz harmonic products being similar in level).
By the way, I found them in France for: F328Be 18000€, F228Be 11000€ and F226Be 9000€. A pair of KH420 is 7400€ and 8351B 7000€, to give an idea.

 

[napilopez]

The "presence" peak happens on-axis but I agree that one one doesn't have to listen on-axis.

The shelving is obvious in the PIR and Erin's actual in-room measurement, less so on-axis.

The "shelving" is due to directivity though, not tonality. PIR tilt is a function of directivity, and a wider speaker will necessarily have a less negative PIR unless it has unusually narrow vertical directivity. I think this speaker is slightly wider than average. The only way to make the PIR steeper without dramatically affecting vertical directivity would therefore be to tilt down the listening window, which we usually don't want.

Personally, the slight nitpicky flaw i see is a mildly laid back upper midrange, not too much treble energy.

Just my interpretation, of course

 

[hardisj]

Well, you know the place, it's all about nitpicking.

Oh, I know. I didn't mean that to sound like it is a bad thing. It was a genuine question; at what point are we (myself included) just nitpicking? I don't know if I will ever be able to answer that question. To me, I think the tradeoffs may always be large enough that you won't have a single speaker that does *everything* one could hope for. But there are probably a fair amount that do 95% of what a listener could hope for. So, is the remaining 5% just nitpicking but not realistic? I don't know.

 

[tuga]

The "shelving" is due to directivity though, not tonality. PIR is a function of directivity, and a wider speaker will necessarily have a less negative PIR unless it has unusually narrow vertical directivity. I think this speaker is slightly wider than average. The only way to make the PIR steeper without dramatically affecting vertical directivity would therefore be to tilt down the listening window, which we usually don't want.

Personally, the slight nitpicky flaw i see is a mildly laid back upper midrange, not too much treble energy

I expect that BBC dip to make the shelved treble even more obvious at the listening spot.

The F208 measured by Amir was a lot flatter.

 

[tuga]

Well, you know the place, it's all about nitpicking.

Oh, I know. I didn't mean that to sound like it is a bad thing. It was a genuine question; at what point are we (myself included) just nitpicking? I don't know if I will ever be able to answer that question. To me, I think the tradeoffs may always be large enough that you won't have a single speaker that does *everything* one could hope for. But there are probably a fair amount that do 95% of what a listener could hope for. So, is the remaining 5% just nitpicking but not realistic? I don't know.

The F226Be is more expensive than the F206. The price difference may not be justifiable. Overly niptucking? I don't think so.

 

[hardisj]

Thanks and great review. I hope Amirm includes the 360 dispersion plots in his future reviews.

I don't think that will happen. It is my own script that no one else has. I did offer it to Klippel but I'm sure they could make their own and probably better, so maybe one day that will be part of their package. But I kind of doubt it. SoundEasy is incorporating it in to their latest version but will only be able to provide ±90°.

 

[q3cpma]

Oh, I know. I didn't mean that to sound like it is a bad thing. It was a genuine question; at what point are we (myself included) just nitpicking? I don't know if I will ever be able to answer that question. To me, I think the tradeoffs may always be large enough that you won't have a single speaker that does *everything* one could hope for. But there are probably a fair amount that do 95% of what a listener could hope for. So, is the remaining 5% just nitpicking but not realistic? I don't know.

8351B + W371A probably is the perfect speaker but it's ugly, expensive and retarded; you pay for incredible R&D in bass directivity and woofers that cross at 320 Hz but with horizontal directivity control happening just after 500 Hz, result: these woofers won't play at all if you want the beam forming mode.

 

[hardisj]

The F226Be is more expensive than the F206. The price difference may not be justifiable. Overly niptucking? I don't think so.

Well, that's always true. To some, the difference the Beryllium tweeter provides may be enough to warrant the extra cost. To some, they might look at a much lesser speaker and not even be able to justify the cost of the F206 itself.

Personally speaking, I've swapped out Be dome tweeters for silk dome tweeters and - every time - have been very glad I did. In fact, I run these Scanspeak Be tweeters in my car.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...or-d3004/6040-00-beryllium-dome-tweeter-each/


I see this same conversation come up with the DIY crowd. "Is xxx speaker really worth yyy more than zzz?". That gets to "value". And "value" is subjective, IMHO. How much are you willing to pay for 50% better performance? 5% performance? These are completely rhetorical. We all know it. It's just part of the equation in to what someone deems "worth it". I can't answer those questions. Not with something complex like a speaker where there are so many differences between 20-20kHz in terms of linearity, dispersion, distortion, etc. I can only provide data and some of my two cents and let others decide what is the right choice for them. Luckily, most of the better lineups will have dealer support that lets you buy and try.

 

[tuga]

Well, that's always true. To some, the difference the Beryllium tweeter provides may be enough to warrant the extra cost. To some, they might look at a much lesser speaker and not even be able to justify the cost of the F206 itself.

Personally speaking, I've swapped out Be dome tweeters for silk dome tweeters and - every time - have been very glad I did. In fact, I run these Scanspeak Be tweeters in my car.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.c...or-d3004/6040-00-beryllium-dome-tweeter-each/

I wasn't referring to the price but to the performance. From the measurements I've seen the F206/8 performs better that the F226/8Be.
I'd still have to listen and would also like to see free-field CSD and HD plots for both tweeters and both midranges...

 

[Archsam]

Well, you know the place, it's all about nitpicking. Personally, if that peak had been H2, I would have said "perfect as far as traditional speaker design goes", but this probably goes over the masking limits of simple tones if H3 is symmetrical (as in 900 Hz and 8.1 kHz harmonic products being similar in level).
By the way, I found them in France for: 3228Be 18000€, F228Be 11000€ and F226Be 9000€. A pair of KH420 is 7400€ and 8351B 7000€, to give an idea.

Here are the UK prices that I can find online:

F322Be £15,995
F228Be £9,995
F226Be £6,995
M126Be £3,995

Pretty much shoulder to shoulder when compared to the Focal equivalents:

Sopra No. 3 £15,999
Kanta No. 3 £8,999
Kanta No. 2 £6,999
Kanta No. 1 £4,499

 

[ElNino]

If you are paying retail price for Revel speakers you are doing it wrong. (At least in the U.S.) This is true of most luxury, dealer-bought speakers. I was able to get a significant price reduction during a sale a month ago. I'm not saying that they are cheap, but I certainly could not afford them at $7k.

Alas, Revel has a very sparse dealer network outside the US, which makes discounts hard to come by. I'd consider making a trip to the US to buy these... what is the ballpark reduction from retail one would expect to get? 30%?

 

[pozz]

On the bright side, D&D will be sending me a pair of the DD8C to review but the state of everything these days is causing delays.

Holy moly.

 

[MZKM]

On the bright side, D&D will be sending me a pair of the DD8C to review but the state of everything these days is causing delays.

Very much looking forward to an in-depth review of that.

And before anyone asks, it's preference rating would likely not be too high as it is a passive dipole design, so the sides would have almost no bass and thus lead to a wonky Spin, to my guess at least.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

The natural comparable here is the Kef Reference 1. Would be nice to see a comparable suite of measurements as thorough as this one. The new GGNTKT M1 which is an active, is another market comparable, and would be great to see it measured as well.

Things are really looking good in the $7k price range these days.

 

[Archsam]

Alas, Revel has a very sparse dealer network outside the US, which makes discounts hard to come by. I'd consider making a trip to the US to buy these... what is the ballpark reduction from retail one would expect to get? 30%?

Just be mindful of duty charges when you ship / carry them back into your country. Bulky / high value items like floorstanding speakers will very likely be checked by custom, unfortunately.