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Revel M16 Speaker Review

Personally I’d use the q4 on the walls and q8 on the ceiling.

In fact, if the Q meta series existed when I put my system together, I might not have used the Revel M16 and S16, if for no other reason than they have more form factors, have slightly better power handling/output, and I prefer a sealed box design in a bass managed system.....and, of course, the spins are good.


And since this line is new, it will be easier to buy, versus the S16 which I believe is being closed out.
 
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How would the M16 serve in an HT, 24.25' x 19.1' x 10.5'. The plan would be M16 as LCR and S16 as Wides, Sides, and Backs (and then something comparable for tops).
Listening position is 11.33' from L/R. Main Amp is Buckeye 8 ch, NC502MP (325w). They would be 62" in from L and R walls and 32" from front wall. Using the SPL calcs at MLP is 106.68 Db. The S16s have a sensitivity of 90db and would driven by the Buckeye and a B&K 200 (200w) so SPL at LP is 106 as well.

Subs now include an RSL Speedwoofer 12s and a older Earthquake Supernova MKIV. Likely to get another 12s up front, and then 2 smaller 10s in the rear corners but that's another thread entirely.

Presently, my current LCR are BG Radias (both R17 and R520, depending on the day of the week) of which I'm irrationally fond. They fall off dramatically at around 100hz due to their own limitations (4" bass driver) and SBIR (I think; need some guidance here). I've overlaid the M16 response (black) over measures of the Radia (colored).

While M105s measure better than the M16s--they don't have the 100hz hump--I'm thinking said hump would be just fine, perhaps countering the room effect.

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One concern I'm told is the room volume of 4887 cu.ft.; but the SPL calcs suggest to me that this will not be an issue. Currently, the room is very lively, with an RT60 over 1sec but weakest at 100hz. I'm working on a treatment plan, but do actually like the sound of the room now for music. But then again, I don't know what a really well balanced room sounds like--I'm merely adapted to the sound as is.

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Until now my plan has always been Kef's: Q6 for LCR and Q4 for surrounds (or some combination of 3160s and c200s--more expensive and complex install). The Revels are a less expensive but not enough to matter ultimately; and the final consideration was the aesthetics: I really like the design of the S16 which fits with my ultimate interior design concept. (Ok, to be honest I worked backwards. I saw the S16s first, and then from there traversed to M106 to M105 to M16. But here on ASR one must start with data...so there I fessed up. I'm a subjectivist! I said it! I'm free! Free at last!)
Thoughts?
Robert

What would be the objective of your change and what volumes are you actually looking to achieve at MLP?
 
I typically listen at 75 to 82, peak around 88.
As to the "change": if you mean changing from the existing speakers to something new? Well admittingly I figured that what I have is rather out of date and I'm suffering from upgraditis.
 
I typically listen at 75 to 82, peak around 88.
As to the "change": if you mean changing from the existing speakers to something new? Well admittingly I figured that what I have is rather out of date and I'm suffering from upgraditis.
If your average level with movie dialog is 80 db then movie peaks are 100db. Thats how movies are mixed.
 
I typically listen at 75 to 82, peak around 88.
As to the "change": if you mean changing from the existing speakers to something new? Well admittingly I figured that what I have is rather out of date and I'm suffering from upgraditis.

Apologies for my density here, but to be sure, are those volumes baseline and not including dynamic peaks?

Point being that if you're regularly listening at that volume as baseline, at your distance I would not count on a single bookshelf speaker to reliably and cleanly produce it without distortion and/or compression. Something larger and/or with more drivers may be a better solution, and I say this as a former M16 owner who used them in a home theater application.
 
F35 on sale at Crutchfield 400 each
Not bad at all, 50% off! If one can accept the white color, that's a very good deal.

Usually such a sale means Revel themselves are discounting it, so calling or emailing a Revel dealer directly might get you a better price than Crutchfields.

These would have higher output capability than the bookshelf sibling.
 
Apologies for my density here, but to be sure, are those volumes baseline and not including dynamic peaks?

Point being that if you're regularly listening at that volume as baseline, at your distance I would not count on a single bookshelf speaker to reliably and cleanly produce it without distortion and/or compression. Something larger and/or with more drivers may be a better solution, and I say this as a former M16 owner who used them in a home theater application.
Sorry, I'm the one being dense, or at least not transparent. I was just eyeballing the SPL from a meter while watching Force Awakens, and it was 75 to 82 in the loud parts, and 88 in the really big boom explosions.

That all said, I went entirely sideways and just bought 3 Kali IN-8 v2 from Guitar Center; while not actually on sale, I called and asked for discount and the agent took off $32 from each (net $367 from $399). From the reviews by Erin, and the comments in review thread they should do just fine for "mid field" listening, which is precisely where I sit (11.3ft), without the compression issues pointed out above. As a side benefit, I free up 3 channels from my main amp. And yes, my processor has XLR outputs (Monoprice HTP-1).
 
For M16 owners, does it speaker sit stably if placed horizontally for center speaker kind of placement?
Someone asked me and I thought it might not be a good idea seeing the curved shape but thought someone might have actually tries here!
 
For M16 owners, does it speaker sit stably if placed horizontally for center speaker kind of placement?
Someone asked me and I thought it might not be a good idea seeing the curved shape but thought someone might have actually tries here!
No and the dispersion would be pretty poor horizontally positioned as well.
 
This is a review and detailed measurements of the Revel M16 stand-mount/bookshelf speaker. I purchased this through my company and it arrived a few days ago. Can't tell you my cost :), but retail price is US $900 (sold $450 each).

As you can expect, when you pay more, you do get more as far as overall look and finish of the speaker:


No fasteners, finish that let you read your smartphone against, etc. Curved sides lead to the back panel:


Large curved port and quality binding posts.

Disclaimer: Before I get into this review, and at the risk of stating the obvious, I have a million conflicts of interest here. I am a long time friend and professional colleague with a number of Harman employees (parent company of Revel). I have praised their design and research philosophy countless times. And our company, Madrona Digital is a Harman dealer (although we hardly sell any stereo gear). So read all the bias you want into the review but please don't go posting to complain. Just read the measurements if you are worried and if you don't trust that, just move along.

Measurements that you are about to see were performed using the Klippel Near-field Scanner (NFS). This is a robotic measurement system that analyzes the speaker all around and is able (using advanced mathematics and dual scan) to subtract room reflections (so where I measure it doesn't matter). It also measures the speaker at close distance ("near-field") which sharply reduces the impact of room noise. Both of these factors enable testing in ordinary rooms yet results that can be more accurate than anechoic chamber. In a nutshell, the measurements show the actual sound coming out of the speaker independent of the room.

All measurements are reference to tweeter axis with the grill removed. Frequency resolution is 0.7 Hz (yes, less than 1 Hz) and plots are at 20 points/octave. Spatial 3-D resolution is 1 degree.

Over 1000 points around the speaker were measured (from 20 to 20 kHz) which resulted in well under 1% error in identification of the sound field across full frequency response of 20 to 20 kHz. Final database of measurements and data is 1.4 Gigabytes in size. As you see below, I also made a scan using 500 points and results were identical, pointing to a well behaved soundfield that is easily to synthesize.

Spinorama Audio Measurements
Acoustic measurements can be grouped in a way that can be perceptually analyzed to determine how good a speaker can be used. This so called spinorama shows us just about everything we need to know about the speaker with respect to tonality and some flaws:

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At first blush it seems that the response is not flat but if you ignore the hump at 100 Hz and roll off above 10 kHz, the rest is actually pretty close to flat. So tonality should be neutral but with some boosted bass. The high frequency roll off was puzzling as it doesn't match Harman's measurement:

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As I have circled, the Harman measurements seems to be some evaluation version? Perhaps there has been changes since? Regardless, the rest of the measurement matches mine quite well so confidence is high in the data you see here.

Above data is for a reflection-free room. We can however simulated what happens in a typical room using Predicted in-room response which is right on the money with some bass boost:
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Given the bit of roll off in high frequencies, don't go putting absorbers everywhere, especially the thin ones.

We are done here. Speaker nerds can read on though.

Basic Speaker Measurements
Speaker phase and impedance shows one resonance which shows up in other measurements including our spinorama shown above:

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You can see it here as well:

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The crossover is at 2.1 kHz and we see rising distortion prior to that. Seems like the woofer is breaking up before its shift is over.

Everybody get ready to say "oooh" as I post the pretty waterfall graph:

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I know, not as exciting in person.....

Advanced Speaker Measurements

You can tell someone was making sure that the sound you hear reflected horizontally is just as perfect as the on-axis direct sound:
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You paid for it, might as well use it so don't cover the sidewalls. Let the speaker use them to present a larger image.

We have our vertical dip at extreme angles so floor and ceiling should be covered if the room is not too dead already:

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That would reduce the dip in vertical axis around crossover region as marked.

Sitting a bit to the side (not as much toe-in) fixes that little hump around 5 kHz:
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Eye-candy Speaker Measurements
Our horizontal directivity plot shows that this speaker has similar tonality to +- 60 degrees and rolls of very smoothly:
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Note that the above has 1 degree spatial resolution so much, much more detailed image than what you see even coming out of anechoic chamnbers.

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Speaker Listening Tests
I first started testing the M16 on my desktop in near-field listening, comparing it to cheap Pioneer SB-22 speaker (levels matched, one speaker at a time). The Pioneer just wasn't in the same class. It sounded tinny and small compared to Revel. Pushing the M16 hard, I could get the small woofer to distort. Since this is not a near field monitor, I decided to test it in my 2-channel system as I have tested other hi-fi speakers. Here is what that looks like:

View attachment 52913

Sitting next to its much bigger brother, the Revel Salon 2, it seems that the M16 won't have a chance. Boy, is that the wrong conclusion. Vocal fidelity in both male and female tracks was excellent. Such balance and what I focused on when I took the blind test at Harman. And then these delightful highs would come with such clarity and freedom of distortion/coloration that would melt me in my chair.

I sat there going through my reference tracks, one by one, and almost all sounded superb. Despite only one speaker playing, if you closed your eyes, you absolutely heard a "soundstage" as if there were two speakers playing and creating a large phantom image. Yes, the bass at times was a bit much. And max SPL was not there. But boy, was it close to my much larger speakers for general enjoyment. I usually play half a dozen tracks and I am done testing speakers but not here. I could not stop.

Conclusions
If you want to have a taste of what all of Harman research and engineering is about, get a pair of M16s and listen. They are delightful "bookshelf" speakers showing what can be done when you combine serious research with a decent budget for pats and manufacturing.

Truth to be told, I tried, I really tried to give the M16s the middle of the road award so that I would not be accused of bias. But at the end, I just could not. These are wonderful sounding speakers. It is what "high-end" sound reproduction is about in smaller budget. The combination of measurements and subjective listening impressions left me to no room but to give them my highest award (in the context of a small, lower cost speaker).

Needless to say, I am happy to recommend the Revel M16 speakers.

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As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Had to ask my guy who does yard work to come and do what I should be doing there, instead of testing audio products. Feels good to not kill my back doing what he is about to do. Then again I look at my bank account and get depressed. Make me feel better by donating what you can using: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/
Sorry mate but ive bought one pair of this revel and im trying to use them by high level with a rel subwoofer but cant find the correct cut off frequency, van you help me please?
Should the cut off frequency be set to 50/60/70 or 80hz??

Thanks
 
Sorry mate but ive bought one pair of this revel and im trying to use them by high level with a rel subwoofer but cant find the correct cut off frequency, van you help me please?
Should the cut off frequency be set to 50/60/70 or 80hz??

Thanks
At least 80hz is recommend, higher if it were me but with no mention of which REL it's hard to say.
 
Sorry mate but ive bought one pair of this revel and im trying to use them by high level with a rel subwoofer but cant find the correct cut off frequency, van you help me please?
Should the cut off frequency be set to 50/60/70 or 80hz??

Thanks
At least 80hz is recommend, higher if it were me but with no mention of which REL it's hard to say.
The trouble with REL starts with their speaker level inputs which don’t have a high pass filter. They want you to send full range to the speakers no matter the downsides in terms of room placement, room modes, and frequency response. They they want you do dial in manual low pass filter the REL.

That is not a recipe for success. We’ve known better for twenty years.

I would recommend using an external crossover like in an AVR and using the line level input on the subwoofer. Set the crossover in the AVR anywhere from 60 to 120 depending on what gives you the most smooth frequency response.

You can use REW for free with a usb measurement mic to objectively figure out the best crossover. But even a simple smart phone app and frequency sweep from YouTube would likely be enough for this.
 
The trouble with REL starts with their speaker level inputs which don’t have a high pass filter. They want you to send full range to the speakers no matter the downsides in terms of room placement, room modes, and frequency response. They they want you do dial in manual low pass filter the REL.

That is not a recipe for success. We’ve known better for twenty years.

I would recommend using an external crossover like in an AVR and using the line level input on the subwoofer. Set the crossover in the AVR anywhere from 60 to 120 depending on what gives you the most smooth frequency response.

You can use REW for free with a usb measurement mic to objectively figure out the best crossover. But even a simple smart phone app and frequency sweep from YouTube would likely be enough for this.
Yup, not a fan of their subs at all. Frustrating that people think crossovers are brick walls, not saying that is the case here. Sealed vs ported for both the speaker and sub play a huge role in the decision process outside of measuring the response.
 
Sorry mate but ive bought one pair of this revel and im trying to use them by high level with a rel subwoofer but cant find the correct cut off frequency, van you help me please?
Should the cut off frequency be set to 50/60/70 or 80hz??

Thanks
Given that you are using high-level inputs on your sub (meaning there's no high-pass filter on the speakers) I'd recommend to start with the crossover set at about 55Hz.
My previous stereo receiver didn't offer bass management so I initially had to use this approach as well with my Revel M16 - it worked OK.
However, proper bass management (i.e. with a high-pass filter for the mains) gives you more flexibility and a better chance to optimize the integration.

As others have stated, the best way to make sure that the integration is done well is to get a measurement microphone and measure the response with REW. Then you can fine-tune speaker/sub placement and crossover configuration until you get the best result.
 
Does anyone know how to tighten the waveguide on M16?
Any information would be great help.
 
Does anyone know how to tighten the waveguide on M16?
Any information would be great help.
I thought I’d try on mine and it’s quite straightforward.

Basically you remove the woofer trim ring by gently pulling on its inside lip. If you have large fingers this might prove difficult.

Once the woofer trim is removed you will then need to remove the woofer itself so that you can access two screws that hold the tweeter waveguide in place. I didn’t go any further than removing the woofer trim ring, but I assumed the rest.

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