Revel M16 Speaker Review

[56suited]

Are these suitable for near-field use (about 1.5-2m), at say 65-80db? Or am I better off with Kali IN-5 or Adam A7V?

 

[AVKS]

Are these suitable for near-field use (about 1.5-2m), at say 65-80db? Or am I better off with Kali IN-5 or Adam A7V?

Absolutely. Had a pair on my desk for years, roughly 2 ft from each ear and 3 ft apart, for years before upgrading to Sierra LXs.

 

[56suited]

Absolutely. Had a pair on my desk for years, roughly 2 ft from each ear and 3 ft apart, for years before upgrading to Sierra LXs.

Well THAT complicates my life (in a good way I think). Now I may want to rethink my initial set-up plan:

Turntable --> WiiM Ultra --> Kali IN-5 or Adam A7V

...if I entertain the M16s, I need to figure out an alternative setup within the same budget (~2.5K to 3K EUR, and the TT is likely going to eat 1K of that)...so I'm probably looking for an integrated amp with the right impedance in the 600-700EUR range that has HDMI eARC. I'll also likely need a phono stage, unless the amp has one, or I get a Technics SL-1500, but I could then downgrade to the WiiM Pro Plus for streamer and save a bit.

So the question before I start that research is...Are the M16s a better speaker option than the active monitors I listed? The Kalis come in at 700 for a pair, and the A7Vs are comparable in price to the M16s.

I have no room treatments, other than furniture, and a rug, and the office is very small (~2m x 3m).

 

[ironhorse128]

@56suited: I would go with the Kali IN-5 or Adam A7V option to remove the cable clutter and the number of devices on/ at the desk.

Also one of the main benefits of the M16 are their wide dispersion which you might not benefit from in near field.

That said. I use the m16 at my desk and enjoy them. Nevertheless, this equipment and cables takes a lot of space.

 

[56suited]

It won't be on my desk...the equipment will be in a Kallax shelf that the TV sits on. This was graphed out on freeware who's trial expired, so disregard the dumbass speaker placement. The speakers will be on either side of the TV.

 

[AVKS]

It won't be on my desk...the equipment will be in a Kallax shelf that the TV sits on. This was graphed out on freeware who's trial expired, so disregard the dumbass speaker placement. The speakers will be on either side of the TV.

Oh yeah, they'll be great in that application. I used mine in my home theater setup at a distance of 8 ft or so before putting them on my desk and it was a quality experience. Buy and enjoy.

 

[A Surfer]

Still the case for active speakers seems extremely clear and compelling

 

[56suited]

I feel like such an idiot when it comes to impedance. These are 6 ohms at 50-120W of recommended power. Will they work well with a WiiM amp?

 

[dominikz]

These are 6 ohms at 50-120W of recommended power. Will they work well with a WiiM amp?

Yes.

Note also that the updated WiiM Amp Pro should be released soon (main difference compared to current version will be inclusion of PFFB - i.e. its frequency response will be invariant of connected loudspeaker impedance).

By the way, I also own the M16 - great speakers too! Currently I power mine with a Denon integrated amp, but have vague plans to switch to a WiiM Amp Pro once it is released.
Subjectively I find the tonality of my Neumanns perhaps a bit more "correct", but the wider dispersion of M16 (combined with a longer listening distance) seems to offer a wider and more diffuse sounstage - which I find very enjoyable! Note however that these subjective observations are mainly from sighted uncontrolled listening so could be biased!

 

[56suited]

Yes.

Note also that the updated WiiM Amp Pro should be released soon (main difference compared to current version will be inclusion of PFFB - i.e. its frequency response will be invariant of connected loudspeaker impedance).

By the way, I also own the M16 - great speakers too! Currently I power mine with a Denon integrated amp, but have vague plans to switch to a WiiM Amp Pro once it is released.
Subjectively I find the tonality of my Neumanns perhaps a bit more "correct", but the wider dispersion of M16 (combined with a longer listening distance) seems to offer a wider and more diffuse sounstage - which I find very enjoyable! Note however that these subjective observations are mainly from sighted uncontrolled listening so could be biased!

"PFFB - i.e. its frequency response will be invariant of connected loudspeaker impedance" - meaning I could lose top or bottom end without PFFB, depending on the impedance of the speakers, right?

I am wondering if Neumanns will be too "correct". Then again, my listening distance of 1.0-1.5m doesn't give much opportunity for Revel's soundstage...and I have no idea how long I would have to wait for the Pro to be released.

 

[dominikz]

"PFFB - i.e. its frequency response will be invariant of connected loudspeaker impedance" - meaning I could lose top or bottom end without PFFB, depending on the impedance of the speakers, right?

I am wondering if Neumanns will be too "correct". Then again, my listening distance of 1.0-1.5m doesn't give much opportunity for Revel's soundstage...and I have no idea how long I would have to wait for the Pro to be released.

TBH both M16 and KH120 are both great choices, even if they have slightly different strengths - it is basically splitting hairs by this stage. IMHO you can't go wrong choosing either!

Lack of the PFFB in the current version of WiiM Amp will introduce less than 1dB of frequency response variation to high frequencies. Not something to lose sleep over, at least in my experience - though I'd rather avoid it if possible!
Still, I'd personally rather choose the current WiiM Amp over any alternative currently available due to the all-in-one format and amazing set of features.

 

[56suited]

TBH both M16 and KH120 are both great choices, even if they have slightly different strengths - it is basically splitting hairs by this stage. IMHO you can't go wrong choosing either!

Lack of the PFFB in the current version of WiiM Amp will introduce less than 1dB of frequency response variation to high frequencies. Not something to lose sleep over, at least in my experience - though I'd rather avoid it if possible!
Still, I'd personally rather choose the current WiiM Amp over any alternative currently available due to the all-in-one format and amazing set of features.

There's also the topic of improved DAC in the Pro (it's the same as the Ultra) but my idiot ears likely wouldn't be able to tell a difference. Also this is a M16 thread, not a WiiM thread

 

[dominikz]

There's also the topic of improved DAC in the Pro (it's the same as the Ultra) but my idiot ears likely wouldn't be able to tell a difference. Also this is a M16 thread, not a WiiM thread

More likely: no one's ears would be able to tell the difference between the DACs.
Difference due to PFFB introduction on the other hand is most likely audible (but probably subtle).

 

[MarkS]

There's also the topic of improved DAC in the Pro (it's the same as the Ultra) but my idiot ears likely wouldn't be able to tell a difference.

NOBODY's ears can tell a difference!

 

[Ktacos]

More likely: no one's ears would be able to tell the difference between the DACs.
Difference due to PFFB introduction on the other hand is most likely audible (but probably subtle).

It depends, sometimes load dependency can be really bad. My a07 amp was unusable with the c note speaker kit because it caused this.

 

[MarkS]

Do you have a similar graph with the same speaker but a different amp?

 

[Ktacos]

Do you have a similar graph with the same speaker but a different amp?

Yup, but it's a cnote so you shouldn't need my info, because it's been measured here. This is the first measurement I took once I got a class A/B amp to test. After this finding I've been getting rid of all my load dependent cheap amps. The amp used here was a friends, whom also has an a07 and we measured with his a07 and got a very similar rise. I went through quite a bit of hassle trying to figure out what was causing the problem.

 

[Kyban]

How would the M16 serve in an HT, 24.25' x 19.1' x 10.5'. The plan would be M16 as LCR and S16 as Wides, Sides, and Backs (and then something comparable for tops).
Listening position is 11.33' from L/R. Main Amp is Buckeye 8 ch, NC502MP (325w). They would be 62" in from L and R walls and 32" from front wall. Using the SPL calcs at MLP is 106.68 Db. The S16s have a sensitivity of 90db and would driven by the Buckeye and a B&K 200 (200w) so SPL at LP is 106 as well.

Subs now include an RSL Speedwoofer 12s and a older Earthquake Supernova MKIV. Likely to get another 12s up front, and then 2 smaller 10s in the rear corners but that's another thread entirely.

Presently, my current LCR are BG Radias (both R17 and R520, depending on the day of the week) of which I'm irrationally fond. They fall off dramatically at around 100hz due to their own limitations (4" bass driver) and SBIR (I think; need some guidance here). I've overlaid the M16 response (black) over measures of the Radia (colored).

While M105s measure better than the M16s--they don't have the 100hz hump--I'm thinking said hump would be just fine, perhaps countering the room effect.

One concern I'm told is the room volume of 4887 cu.ft.; but the SPL calcs suggest to me that this will not be an issue. Currently, the room is very lively, with an RT60 over 1sec but weakest at 100hz. I'm working on a treatment plan, but do actually like the sound of the room now for music. But then again, I don't know what a really well balanced room sounds like--I'm merely adapted to the sound as is.

Until now my plan has always been Kef's: Q6 for LCR and Q4 for surrounds (or some combination of 3160s and c200s--more expensive and complex install). The Revels are a less expensive but not enough to matter ultimately; and the final consideration was the aesthetics: I really like the design of the S16 which fits with my ultimate interior design concept. (Ok, to be honest I worked backwards. I saw the S16s first, and then from there traversed to M106 to M105 to M16. But here on ASR one must start with data...so there I fessed up. I'm a subjectivist! I said it! I'm free! Free at last!)
Thoughts?
Robert

 

[nathan]

They are great speakers for the price. I don't think you'd want to try to get 105db at your listening seat with one of them. Even if it could handle that, there's likely compression and distortion at that point. Max power handling of 120 watts, and sensitivity of 86dB, point to that limitation. As do the test results.

The KEF Q6 meta can handle a bit more power with their dual drivers, so that might tip the balance in their favor. They can handle 200watts, with similar sensitivity, and even then KEF notes that they can only reach 109db at 1m. At your listening distance that probably means less than 105db at your seat, but even so, they can probably handle it a little better than the Revel. (No I don't see precise compression or distortion data to back that up, yet.)

So, neither is a bad choice and neither is obviously superior by a large margin. If the rest of the ecosystem pushes you to one or the other, that's a factor worth considering. Note that the S16 are being phased out, so don't spend months waiting (or be prepared to find them on the second hand market).

 

[Kyban]

Thanks for the guidance. Would it a terrible idea to use the S16s with the Q6? I personally doubt I would be able to hear a tonal mismatch.
What would you suggest as tops? The key constraint is that I cant do in wall/ in ceiling install, everything is surface mount. Long story.