Revel M16 Speaker Review

[Absolute]

Staying relevant to the review, how audible is that resonance at ~4500 hz? It shows in most of the graphs. We are sensitive in that range, but a cause for concern?
Is it coming from the woof, tweeter or cabinet?

 

[thewas]

I agree about distortion superiority, but I don't know if/how relevant that is to sound quality in an absolute sense. My guess is that it's far down the list of important things, but frequency response and dynamic capability is up there imo.

When we get at the level of very good loudspeakers, thus with nicely neutral and smooth on- and off-axis responses (and I count both Revel and Genelec to those) than also such secondary issues like low HD and IMD become also important as the decisive factor.

 

[QMuse]

Staying relevant to the review, how audible is that resonance at ~4500 hz? It shows in most of the graphs. We are sensitive in that range, but a cause for concern?
Is it coming from the woof, tweeter or cabinet?

4500? There is a minor one at 5500 which doesn't look problematic. Best to judge them from estimated In-Room response.

 

[Absolute]

When we get at the level of very good loudspeakers, thus with nicely neutral and smooth on- and off-axis responses (and I count both Revel and Genelec to those) than also such secondary issues like low HD and IMD become also important as the decisive factor.

Perhaps. If Amir is planning to keep these speakers he can directly compare against a bigger Genelec or other speakers with comparable output capabilities to check if he's reacting to something. Distortion is difficult to predict into audibility, it seems.

 

[Senior NEET Engineer]

At first I thought it was a clear case of bias, but after going back to the Genelec review I realised that the lack of dynamic capability in the Genelecs is holding it back.

I didn't have this impression. It is rated for 102 dB continuous / 111-115 dB peak @ 1m, above 100hz, 3000 cu ft room.

 

[Absolute]

4500? There is a minor one at 5500 which doesn't look problematic. Best to judge them from estimated In-Room response.

Sorry, I stand corrected. I assumed the graph showed intervals of 1000 hz. 5500 hz it is. Hard to tell on the phone. It if we're going by the graphs presented by @MZKM it looks like the resonance gets stronger at bigger angles. Cabinet, perhaps?

Senior NEET Engineer said:

I didn't have this impression. It is rated for 102 dB continuous / 111-115 dB peak @ 1m, above 100hz, 3000 cu ft room.

Ok, thanks for clarifying specifications. I see three possibilities;

1. The Genelecs doesn't play loud enough for our crazy host for whatever reason.

2. The Revels sound more dynamic due to bass boost around 100 hz.

3. Higher distortion might contribute to a sense of increased dynamics.

All is plausible, imo.

 

[QMuse]

It if we're going by the graphs presented by @MZKM it looks like the resonance gets stronger at bigger angles.

As I said, best to look at listening window vs early reflection vs sound power or solely to predicted in-room response, and there is no drama there.

Cabinet, perhaps?

Cabinet resonance at 5500Hz? I highly doubt it.

Maybe some minor tweeter resonance.

 

[Absolute]

As I said, best to look at listening window vs early reflection vs sound power or solely to predicted in-room response, and there is no drama there.
Cabinet resonance at 5500Hz? I highly doubt it. Maybe some minor tweeter resonance.

Well, it shows in all those graphs. Interestingly it also shows in the directivity graphs of Harman's own spinorama, but not in Amir's. I'm not convinced it's a non-issue because it's strong enough to show up on all graphs.

 

[Koeitje]

The distortion at the crossover worries me. I really want to see how the M106 compares now.

 

[QMuse]

Well, it shows in all those graphs. Interestingly it also shows in the directivity graphs of Harman's own spinorama, but not in Amir's. I'm not convinced it's a non-issue because it's strong enough to show up on all graphs.

Well, i don't see it. One of us should definitely have his vision checked.

 

[Sancus]

1. The Genelecs doesn't play loud enough for our crazy host for whatever reason.

2. The Revels sound more dynamic due to bass boost around 100 hz.

3. Higher distortion might contribute to a sense of increased dynamics.

All is plausible, imo.

I mean, it may just be sighted bias. No one can turn it off, no matter how hard they try.

However, this speaker and the Genelec have different behaviour when they're pushed into limit. In this speaker the woofer distorts(which was reported). In the Genelec you get a light color change, some glitching, and what sounded like a step(rather than gradual) into much higher distortion. That's definitely less pleasant behaviour.

If you're not planning to take either of these speakers into their limits(which for the Genelec, are purely below 100hz, above that it has 10-20db more output), then neither of these behaviours matter and so the final subjective ratings also don't matter.

Thankfully, we have data, and excellent data at that

 

[QMuse]

View attachment 52905

The crossover is at 2.1 kHz and we see rising distortion prior to that. Seems like the woofer is breaking up before its shift is over.

I'm not sure that is the reason. If that would be the case wouldn't we be seeing THD spanning up to 2.1kHz and than falling down with the crossover cutting slope? This sharply falling edge when it stops seems quite unusual..

 

[Absolute]

Well, i don't see it. One of us should definitely have his vision checked.

Hah, my glasses almost work, so book a time for yourself tomorrow!

Here's what I'm looking at;

But never mind, it looked different when zoomed in. I'm both blind and stupid!

 

[QMuse]

Hah, my glasses almost work, so book a time for yourself tomorrow!

Here's what I'm looking at;

View attachment 52940

But never mind, it looked different when zoomed in. I'm both blind and stupid!

You're not. But you are paying too much attention to those detailed reflections curves. If the resonance doesn't show in 3 main curves (listening window, early reflecions and sound power) it is hardly relevant.

 

[Frank Dernie]

What needs to be measure is the new JBL HDI line. In fact I’d argue that it is the most important speaker in 2020 to measure.

Probably not if you live in one of the many places they are unavailable!
This is what JBL sell here
https://uk.jbl.com/home-audio/?mscl..._medium=cpc&utm_source=bing&utm_term=+uk +jbl
and my search for those models on sale in the UK came up with nothing.

 

[QMuse]

With just a little EQ we get a super-linear beast out of this one.

Upper 3 curves are original listening window, early reflections and sound power, lower 3 curves are corrected.

 

[goldark]

I'm somewhat curious as to how their less expensive cousin, the Infinity Reference 162, will fare. However, I've seen enough measurement data, and have experience with them since I actually own them, to be confident with my purchase...

I own the R152 and the Revel F206. They are more alike than different when accounting for form factor.

 

[Shazb0t]

That's several speakers now that have trusted 3rd party measurements where your Klippel displays high frequency rolloff against their measurements which show a rise in high frequencies. It seems plausible that your Klippel may be attenuating high frequencies above 10 kHz? @amirm

 

[pma]

That's several speakers now that have trusted 3rd party measurements where your Klippel displays high frequency rolloff against their measurements which show a rise in high frequencies. It seems plausible that your Klippel may be attenuating high frequencies above 10 kHz? @amirm

Microphone calibration curve and sheet might be shown?

 

[Jim777]

Impressive results, 1k$ in the HIFI world is the price some people paid for their cables. I'm excited to see that this whole speaker measurement adventure is already providing awesome value! Can't thank you enough for the hard work!