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Revel M126Be Bookshelves – Initial Impressions and Questions

MeThinksTooMuch

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Hi everybody! Finally registered and donated to the cause after lurking on ASR for a while. Hats off to Amir and all the folks who participate to create this awesome resource and community. Based on the info on ASR, I recently purchased an Atom DAC+ to round out my simple home office rig (Roon -> Laptop –> Atom DAC -> Emotiva Stealth 6s). The DAC made a huge improvement.

Given the success of that upgrade, I decided it was time to upgrade the speakers in my primary rig. I’m currently auditioning the Revel M126Be bookshelves through Crutchfield (can’t beat their return policy). My primary home rig is Roon -> Burson DA-160 DAC -> Parasound Halo P6 -> Halo A21+. The Revels are replacing a pair of tired Bose 10.2s from the ‘90s and have some help from an Elac 3010 Sub. The only correction applied thus far is to EQ the 10” sub.
The Revels are a huge improvement. I mainly listen to Classical and Jazz but grew up on rock and heavy metal. The Revels seem to handle electronic music spectacularly. I simply can’t believe the sound coming from these bookshelves when playing music like Queen and Rush. They play plenty loud. The timing and control are spot on, but I can’t help wonder if the Parasounds and Burson are partially responsible for that.

Acoustic music reproduction and vocals are also exceptional. They get the timber of piano, strings, and woodwinds right. I can’t say I hear a soundstage, but that may be my setup. Instrument separation is mostly very good. The only time I ever wonder if the Revel bookshelves leave something to be desired is with large symphonic works. In Beethoven’s 9th for example, several of the loudest crescendos seem a bit strained and unrefined, almost compressed sounding. And the dynamic impact was not quite what the old Bose deliver. Could a 12” sub fix this lack of dynamic music impact (my 10” sub thumped electronic music)? That said, symphonic music is still a delight with the Revels. I can hear the nuances in the decrescendos where the melodic theme gets handed off from one part of the orchestra to another (utterly lost with the Bose).

So I’m left wondering if these shortcomings in the little Revels are due to their bookshelf size or their 2-way design? Would the larger F226BEs handle large symphonic works better? Conversely, how would a competent 3-way fare in place of the Revels, like BMR Philharmonic?

My concern with floor standers is our primary listening position. It’s about 11 ft from the speakers in a 10x13x9 room. The floor is an open layout, with the listening “room” flanked on one side by a hall 4x13x9, then another room again 10x13x9 (½ wall separates rooms and hall hence quotes around room). Behind these rooms are some other open spaces (kitchen and hall leading to other small rooms). The Revel bookshelves can fill the entire floor with sound, and they are very listenable from the other room (maybe 60-65 degrees off axis).

I’m very satisfied with the Revel bookshelves overall but am wondering if there’s room for improvement. Any advice with respect to my questions is appreciated, and I’m happy to answer any questions with the understanding that I am simply a middle-aged dude who loves music and learning.
 

NTK

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Welcome to ASR!

Question for you: Do you high-pass the Revels?

P6.PNG
 

Paweł L

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Less lower freq signal equals less distortions around and below crossover point. The SB Acoustics drivers are not the best when comes to bass reproduction, their strength is in the midrange. You could plug the ports with roled foam turning it into closed box design - shallower 12dB/oct rool off in the bass but much earlier. See which combination works best with your sub and room.
 

NTK

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Yes, the high pass crossover on the P6 effects both RCA and XLR outputs. The x-over is currently set at standard 80Hz. Will try to plug the ports as Paweł L suggests to see how that works.
You may also experiment with setting the cross-over to a higher frequency, e.g. 120 Hz. The slope of the Parasound cross-over is only 12 dB/octave. Setting it at 80 Hz will still leave quite a bit of low-bass to the Revels.

The next step I recommend is to run some in-room frequency measurements. You can apply the EQ's using Roon.
 

Beave

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Less lower freq signal equals less distortions around and below crossover point. The SB Acoustics drivers are not the best when comes to bass reproduction, their strength is in the midrange. You could plug the ports with roled foam turning it into closed box design - shallower 12dB/oct rool off in the bass but much earlier. See which combination works best with your sub and room.

The PerformaBe series does not use SB Acoustics drivers.
 

Chromatischism

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The SB Acoustics drivers are not the best when comes to bass reproduction, their strength is in the midrange.
I don't think this is a fair criticism at all. The SB Acoustics drivers, including the ceramic-coated aluminum woofers, are superb at bass. Revel just doesn't tune their speakers super duper low because they want to keep sensitivity up and they believe in bass management.
 

Paweł L

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The PerformaBe series does not use SB Acoustics drivers.
The white cone with it's ribbed design look exactly like SB17CAC mids-bass. They might be made with different suspension, voice coil, motor, etc to Revel specs. The NBAC, CAC cone series is one of the better behaving among many metal cone drivers. I have pair of the 17NBACs in my DIY set. Erin actually measured the 17CAC 4 ohm version with his Klippel set up.
 

Beave

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The white cone with it's ribbed design look exactly like SB17CAC mids-bass. They might be made with different suspension, voice coil, motor, etc to Revel specs. The NBAC, CAC cone series is one of the better behaving among many metal cone drivers. I have pair of the 17NBACs in my DIY set. Erin actually measured the 17CAC 4 ohm version with his Klippel set up.

This has all been hashed out on this forum many times, but it keeps coming up.

The regular Revel Performa3 series uses the SB Acoustics aluminum drivers. And SB Acoustics also makes white ceramic drivers. So everybody assumes that the PerformaBe series uses the white SB Acoustics ceramic drivers. This is not correct.

The Revel Be cones do not look just like the SB17CAC drivers. First, they *don't* have ribs. The suspensions are different, the dust caps are different, the cones are different, the magnets are different, the frames are different, etc. They are not SB Acoustics drivers nor are they clones of SB Acoustics drivers. They are made in China, which is not where SB Acoustics manufactures.

I have posted pics on this forum of the PerformaBe drivers alongside the Performa3 drivers, showing the substantial differences between the two.

As for Erin's measurements, I just happened to be looking at that last night - and I figured that's what you were referring to when you said their mid performance is great but their bass performance is lacking.

Erin wrote that Revel uses a similar driver in their PerformaBe series, but that is also misleading.

The SB Acoustics ceramic drivers are very much like the SB Acoustics aluminum drivers, so his measurements tell us more about the drivers in the Performa3 series than in the PerformaBe series.

The drivers in the PerformaBe series are very different from these SB Acoustics drivers.
 
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Paweł L

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This has all been hashed out on this forum many times, but it keeps coming up.

The regular Revel Performa3 series uses the SB Acoustics aluminum drivers. And SB Acoustics also makes white ceramic drivers. So everybody assumes that the PerformaBe series uses the white SB Acoustics ceramic drivers. This is not correct.

The Revel Be cones do not look just like the SB17CAC drivers. First, they *don't* have ribs. The suspensions are different, the dust caps are different, the cones are different, the magnets are different, the frames are different, etc. They are not SB Acoustics drivers nor are they clones of SB Acoustics drivers. They are made in China, which is not where SB Acoustics manufactures.

I have posted pics on this forum of the PerformaBe drivers alongside the Performa3 drivers, showing the substantial differences between the two.

As for Erin's measurements, I just happened to be looking at that last night - and I figured that's what you were referring to when you said their mid performance is great but their bass performance is lacking.

Erin wrote that Revel uses a similar driver in their PerformaBe series, but that is also misleading.

The SB Acoustics ceramic drivers are very much like the SB Acoustics aluminum drivers, so his measurements tell us more about the drivers in the Performa3 series than in the PerformaBe series.

The drivers in the PerformaBe series are very different from these SB Acoustics drivers.
OK, no offense. I read Revel builds their spkrs in China, but like many I was under the impression the drivers are custom build by SB to Revel specs. I guess until someone takes apart one of Revel speaker and does detailed inspection, measures them we won't really know what kind of secrets are hidden from us.
 

Chromatischism

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The regular Revel Performa3 series uses the SB Acoustics aluminum drivers. And SB Acoustics also makes white ceramic drivers. So everybody assumes that the PerformaBe series uses the white SB Acoustics ceramic drivers. This is not correct.
Yeah, the Performa3, not Be. It is a ceramic-aluminum construction.

Revel M106:
20200816_151444.jpg


Buchardt S400:
NZ6_3852.jpg
 

Paweł L

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Chromatischism, this looks exactly like SB17NBAC-4 I have at home. And I like them more with SB passive radiator than in bass reflex, 16L enclosure.
 

MediumRare

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So I’m left wondering if these shortcomings in the little Revels are due to their bookshelf size or their 2-way design? Would the larger F226BEs handle large symphonic works better? Conversely, how would a competent 3-way fare in place of the Revels, like BMR Philharmonic?

My concern with floor standers is our primary listening position. It’s about 11 ft from the speakers in a 10x13x9 room. The floor is an open layout, with the listening “room” flanked on one side by a hall 4x13x9, then another room again 10x13x9 (½ wall separates rooms and hall hence quotes around room). Behind these rooms are some other open spaces (kitchen and hall leading to other small rooms). The Revel bookshelves can fill the entire floor with sound, and they are very listenable from the other room (maybe 60-65 degrees off axis).
The Revels you have are excellent. It's hard to visualize your space, but it sounds quite large and assymetrical. A diagram would help. What's the cubic feet of the whole space?

Given that your listening position is rather far from the speakers and the room could be big, my non-technical feeling is the floor-standers would help. Dynamics in the upper-bass and below is the result of moving a lot of air. So while the literal FR of small speakers can go quite low, more/bigger cones is going to help with dynamics and the feeling of effortless weight behind the sound. I have three sets of Revel bookshelves with ample power behind them, but (not saying Revels are worse than B&W) they still can't compare to my B&W floor-standing setup for sheer impact and, frankly, enjoyment (cue firestorm;)). You might also consider a second sub if your room is quite large.
 

Jbrunwa

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We have the M106s, so not the 126Be, but find location and angle to MLP to make a bigger difference for classical music than rock music. In our larger room (30x18ft with high ceiling and open side) We replaced them with F328Bes and found the floor standers give a bigger soundstage, which I guess is no surprise. BTW the floor standers tweeter height is higher than the bookshelf’s on stands. But when we moved the M106s to another room (20x25ft with standard ceiling) we find nothing lacking in the M106s. But still find stand height (perhaps higher than standard), placement width and toe in to be more critical especially with classical music. We listen a lot to Berlin Philharmonic digital orchestra for example. The other thing we noticed is that old or poor recordings become very obvious with these speakers.
 
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