Revel M106 + Rythmik L12 Setup Question

[Dj7675]

Just went from JBL 708Ps to to Revel M106 + Rythmik L12. While it has not been measured yet here at ASR, from Spinorama I have seen elsewhere it measures well. Sub will be between the 2 speakers (not much flexibility in placement). Couple of questions:
1-M106 is ported but does come with port plugs. Is it better to use port plugs when using a sub?
2-Crossover-Will be using a receiver for power/crossover etc. Crossover recommendation? Stick with 80, or could it be worthwhile to go higher?
Listening to them now and they sound very good with no eq and just guessed at the sub level. Planning on just doing eq up to somewhere between 200-500hz.
Anyone else plug the ports on their bookshelves to better integrate with a sub or cross higher than 80hz with good results?

 

[suttondesign]

I normally crossover in the way that decreases reliance on a small woofer so as to decrease distortion. One often finds 65hz or so as a good place to maximize the quality of the small speakers and the output from the subwoofer. However, if there is a room node around 80hz, I play around with low-order crossovers around that point to tame it, or else I cross over the mains above it and place the sub where it does not excite it. You need a measurement mic and software, though room nodes at around 80hz are very easy to hear and deal with by trial and error. They are quite boomy and objectionable. Harder to assess nodes at 50hz, for example, and the range from 100hz to 200hz is so complex that you need to graph it.

 

[Dj7675]

I normally crossover in the way that decreases reliance on a small woofer so as to decrease distortion. One often finds 65hz or so as a good place to maximize the quality of the small speakers and the output from the subwoofer. However, if there is a room node around 80hz, I play around with low-order crossovers around that point to tame it, or else I cross over the mains above it and place the sub where it does not excite it. You need a measurement mic and software, though room nodes at around 80hz are very easy to hear and deal with by trial and error. They are quite boomy and objectionable. Harder to assess nodes at 50hz, for example, and the range from 100hz to 200hz is so complex that you need to graph it.

I’ll measure with REW first to get an idea of where the issues are. I’ll also plug the ports to see what the response looks like with and without the plugs. On an unrelated note.. they sure do an amazing job on the gloss walnut finish.

 

[Bear123]

I would not plug the port. You will simply reduce output and efficiency over a broad range. Eq will reduce output as needed with the port open....this simply results in lower distortion and higher clean output capability. Plugging the port is a terrible idea imo and is a method that is only even considered due to outdated 2 channel configurations that don't use subs or eq.

I would start with 80 Hz crossover, and experiment(measure) with up to 120 to see what gives the best response and best sound quality. Cross too high and you will be able to localize the sub although placement up front between your mains should help alleviate this issue to some extent.

Also, don't be afraid to consider alternate placement options if response is horrible.

Couple of tips if you are new to REW...set the X-axis to 20-20KHZ, Y-axis to 45-105 dB. This should give the proper 5 dB increments for correct visualization of your response, and you will probably need to use 1/12th smoothing to make the graph readable, perhaps even 1/6th. Be sure to set scale to logarithmic as well and not linear.

 

[Dj7675]

I would not plug the port. You will simply reduce output and efficiency over a broad range. Eq will reduce output as needed with the port open....this simply results in lower distortion and higher clean output capability. Plugging the port is a terrible idea imo and is a method that is only even considered due to outdated 2 channel configurations that don't use subs or eq.

I would start with 80 Hz crossover, and experiment(measure) with up to 120 to see what gives the best response and best sound quality. Cross too high and you will be able to localize the sub although placement up front between your mains should help alleviate this issue to some extent.

Also, don't be afraid to consider alternate placement options if response is horrible.

Couple of tips if you are new to REW...set the X-axis to 20-20KHZ, Y-axis to 45-105 dB. This should give the proper 5 dB increments for correct visualization of your response, and you will probably need to use 1/12th smoothing to make the graph readable, perhaps even 1/6th. Be sure to set scale to logarithmic as well and not linear.

Thanks for chiming in on the port and reasons for leaving it open. Make sense. Will get started on this tonight.

 

[Bear123]

Good luck, should be quite an excellent little setup!

 

[mitchco]

Nice combo! Should sound excellent!

While not perfect, try this room mode calculator: https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc Type in the dimensions of your room as best as possible for a non rectangular room. It is not critical as the modes shift slightly in frequency.

Like @Bear123 says, don't plug the ports. Use REW to get a sense of the natural roll-off M106, i.e. it's -3 dB point in the room. With that in mind, find the nearest crossover frequency that is also between room modes as per the room mode calculator. There is your XO frequency.

Good luck and let us know how it sounds!

 

[Dj7675]

Nice combo! Should sound excellent!

While not perfect, try this room mode calculator: https://amcoustics.com/tools/amroc Type in the dimensions of your room as best as possible for a non rectangular room. It is not critical as the modes shift slightly in frequency.

Like @Bear123 says, don't plug the ports. Use REW to get a sense of the natural roll-off M106, i.e. it's -3 dB point in the room. With that in mind, find the nearest crossover frequency that is also between room modes as per the room mode calculator. There is your XO frequency.

Good luck and let us know how it sounds!

Thanks. I’ve seen you mention that before about putting the crossover at or around the room mode. I had luck with that by trial and error a few years ago when I had a room mode around 50hz in another room and it helped quite a bit. Nice to hear it is actually a thing that can help.

 

[CBM]

Just went from JBL 708Ps to to Revel M106 + Rythmik L12. While it has not been measured yet here at ASR, from Spinorama I have seen elsewhere it measures well. Sub will be between the 2 speakers (not much flexibility in placement). Couple of questions:
1-M106 is ported but does come with port plugs. Is it better to use port plugs when using a sub?
2-Crossover-Will be using a receiver for power/crossover etc. Crossover recommendation? Stick with 80, or could it be worthwhile to go higher?
Listening to them now and they sound very good with no eq and just guessed at the sub level. Planning on just doing eq up to somewhere between 200-500hz.
Anyone else plug the ports on their bookshelves to better integrate with a sub or cross higher than 80hz with good results?

Did you decide to use the port plugs?

 

[Dj7675]

Did you decide to use the port plugs?

No. Rather than port plugs to reduce some bass output, I am using a Denon X3500 Audyssey XT32 for room correction. I limit correction to either 2 or 300 (can’t recall). For normal TV viewing in our living room, I actually found a sub is not needed. I might add sub back in at some point, but the sound is quite enjoyable in a 2.0 setup for this room.

 

[CBM]

Thanks. I just got the 105's and I was curious about your experience.