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Revel M106 Bookshelf Speaker Review

Acerun

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Audessey 32XT wants me to cross them at 40...and to be honest it sounds pretty good. I have two subs. One of the reason's that I'm entertaining it is that at lower volumes the subs don't always even kick in...So I'd rather be getting quality sound down to 40ish from the M106's while at lower volume. Is that a reasonable line of thinking?
 

Dj7675

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Audessey 32XT wants me to cross them at 40...and to be honest it sounds pretty good. I have two subs. One of the reason's that I'm entertaining it is that at lower volumes the subs don't always even kick in...So I'd rather be getting quality sound down to 40ish from the M106's while at lower volume. Is that a reasonable line of thinking?
That is where audyssey is detecting the -3db point I believe. Same reason it detects and recommends full range sometimes on some speakers. Either room mode is boosting or placement near a wall. It is still a bookshelf with single 6.5 woofer. I would still select something around 80hz with a sub. No need to stress the woofer
 

tw 2022

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That is where audyssey is detecting the -3db point I believe. Same reason it detects and recommends full range sometimes on some speakers. Either room mode is boosting or placement near a wall. It is still a bookshelf with single 6.5 woofer. I would still select something around 80hz with a sub. No need to stress the woofer
audyssey is "mis" reading the -3 at 40 hz..... it's more like 50 something on those m106's....:)
 

Dj7675

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audyssey is "mis" reading the -3 at 40 hz..... it's more like 50 something on those m106's....:)
Not necessarily ... If place on/near a wall it can boost low end by around 6dB if I recall correctly. And depending on the seating position and distance from the front wall, a room mode can also provide boost of low frequencies. I had the M106 on front wall of home theater and recall it being around 40hz hz as well in Audyssey. I have had several bookshelf speakers that Audyssey has had that "recommendation" as well.
 

Acerun

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That is where audyssey is detecting the -3db point I believe. Same reason it detects and recommends full range sometimes on some speakers. Either room mode is boosting or placement near a wall. It is still a bookshelf with single 6.5 woofer. I would still select something around 80hz with a sub. No need to stress the woofer
I'm just hoping to get the best sound quality out of the M106s. The M106 almost certainly has lower distortion than my E15HP2 Hypex powered subs, no? If I understand what Amir has said about Hypex, it's more about power than low distortion/sound quality. Maybe the compromise is crossing at 60...Does the argument that the subs don't kick in until higher volumes not fly? If the subs aren't on at lower volumes (I have them set to "auto", wouldn't I want more bandwidth from the 106s?
 
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Dj7675

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I'm just hoping to get the best sound quality out of the M106s. The M106 almost certainly has lower distortion than my E15HP2 Hypex powered subs, no? If I understand what Amir has said about Hypex, it's more about power than low distortion/sound quality. Maybe the compromise is crossing at 60...Does the argument that the subs don't kick in until higher volumes not fly? If the subs aren't on a lower volumes, wouldn't I want more bandwidth from the 106s?
I don't think so... I would think distortion might be under 1% in the 20-50hz range and much higher volume than the M106. If listening loudly, not ony could distortion be an issue at the 40hz crossover, but at some point compression will kick in, where the sub will be able to maintain increased volume at much higher leverls without compression or higher level distorion.
 

Beave

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I'm just hoping to get the best sound quality out of the M106s. The M106 almost certainly has lower distortion than my E15HP2 Hypex powered subs, no? If I understand what Amir has said about Hypex, it's more about power than low distortion/sound quality. Maybe the compromise is crossing at 60...Does the argument that the subs don't kick in until higher volumes not fly? If the subs aren't on at lower volumes (I have them set to "auto", wouldn't I want more bandwidth from the 106s?

No, not at all. Quite the opposite, actually. Any decent subwoofer should have considerably lower distortion than just about any bookshelf speaker in the range of 20Hz up to 100Hz and maybe even 200Hz. Any decent subwoofer should also be able to play that region louder without compression.

Look at the distortion plots (on page 1 of this thread) for the M106. Distortion is great in the treble and midrange, but it rises considerably as you get below 300Hz and as you increase the level.

You should cross the sub at 80Hz, or maybe even 100Hz depending on speaker and subwoofer locations. The higher you cross over, the less load is put on your AVR, and also the less excursion is needed on the M106 midwoofer - which should make its mids cleaner.
 
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Acerun

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No, not at all. Quite the opposite, actually. Any decent subwoofer should have considerably lower distortion than just about any bookshelf speaker in the range of 20Hz up to 100Hz and maybe even 200Hz. Any decent subwoofer should also be able to play that region louder without compression.

Look at the distortion plots (on page 1 of this thread) for the M106. Distortion is great in the treble and midrange, but it rises considerably as you get below 300Hz and as you increase the level.

You should cross the sub at 80Hz, or maybe even 100Hz depending on speaker and subwoofer locations. The higher you cross over, the less load is put on your AVR, and also the less excursion is needed on the M106 midwoofer - which should make its mids cleaner.
Wow. Completely counterintuitive to me. Grateful for the information. Now to try it in real life. I crossed my m16s at 90 which is where I thought they sounded best. I thought a lower crossover wou maximize what a killer speaker the m106 really is but looks like the data shows otherwise.

Two Rhythmic E15HP2 at 1000 Watts each of direct servo sub is formidable. I don't listen at super high volumes but I really love the headroom and quality of sound from these two subs... Also the way they smooth out the room and can disappear.

I know I'm beating a dead horse but when I listen at lower volumes and the subs aren't even kicking in... Why wouldn't I want a lower crossover? Wouldn't I want to get more low volume bass performance out of the m106s?
 

Acerun

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No, not at all. Quite the opposite, actually. Any decent subwoofer should have considerably lower distortion than just about any bookshelf speaker in the range of 20Hz up to 100Hz and maybe even 200Hz. Any decent subwoofer should also be able to play that region louder without compression.

Look at the distortion plots (on page 1 of this thread) for the M106. Distortion is great in the treble and midrange, but it rises considerably as you get below 300Hz and as you increase the level.

You should cross the sub at 80Hz, or maybe even 100Hz depending on speaker and subwoofer locations. The higher you cross over, the less load is put on your AVR, and also the less excursion is needed on the M106 midwoofer - which should make its mids cleaner.
Light bulb moment, turning up the crossover activates the subs at lower volume... Duh...
 

Beave

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Wow. Completely counterintuitive to me. Grateful for the information. Now to try it in real life. I crossed my m16s at 90 which is where I thought they sounded best. I thought a lower crossover wou maximize what a killer speaker the m106 really is but looks like the data shows otherwise.

Two Rhythmic E15HP2 at 1000 Watts each of direct servo sub is formidable. I don't listen at super high volumes but I really love the headroom and quality of sound from these two subs... Also the way they smooth out the room and can disappear.

I know I'm beating a dead horse but when I listen at lower volumes and the subs aren't even kicking in... Why wouldn't I want a lower crossover? Wouldn't I want to get more low volume bass performance out of the m106s?

The only speaker that could even compete with a subwoofer below about 80Hz would be a very large, expensive tower. Even a "killer" speaker like the M106 is quite limited in its bass abilities (extension, distortion, ability to play loud). It's a killer speaker in its class, but it can't compete with large towers or with subwoofers in the bass region. Even the F208 tower can't compete with good subwoofers in the deeper bass range. Woofer size matters - a lot - for bass.
 

Acerun

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The only speaker that could even compete with a subwoofer below about 80Hz would be a very large, expensive tower. Even a "killer" speaker like the M106 is quite limited in its bass abilities (extension, distortion, ability to play loud). It's a killer speaker in its class, but it can't compete with large towers or with subwoofers in the bass region. Even the F208 tower can't compete with good subwoofers in the deeper bass range. Woofer size matters - a lot - for bass.
I'm sold on these two 15-in 1000w subwoofers... It's just getting them integrated properly and I guess letting the m106s do what they do best. I've got them set on the lowest extension and the highest dampening which is what I'm told is best for music.
 

tw 2022

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The only speaker that could even compete with a subwoofer below about 80Hz would be a very large, expensive tower. Even a "killer" speaker like the M106 is quite limited in its bass abilities (extension, distortion, ability to play loud). It's a killer speaker in its class, but it can't compete with large towers or with subwoofers in the bass region. Even the F208 tower can't compete with good subwoofers in the deeper bass range. Woofer size matters - a lot - for bass.
Yeah, revels especially aren't known as bass monster towers, i listened to the f36s a while back and one of my takeaways was, they really need a sub...
 

Dj7675

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Wow. Completely counterintuitive to me. Grateful for the information. Now to try it in real life. I crossed my m16s at 90 which is where I thought they sounded best. I thought a lower crossover wou maximize what a killer speaker the m106 really is but looks like the data shows otherwise.

Two Rhythmic E15HP2 at 1000 Watts each of direct servo sub is formidable. I don't listen at super high volumes but I really love the headroom and quality of sound from these two subs... Also the way they smooth out the room and can disappear.

I know I'm beating a dead horse but when I listen at lower volumes and the subs aren't even kicking in... Why wouldn't I want a lower crossover? Wouldn't I want to get more low volume bass performance out of the m106s?
The ear does hear all frequencies in a linear manner. Someone I’m sure will explain it better, but if you look up equal loudness coutour or fletcher munson curve, you will see in order to hear the bass at the same level you will need to bump up your bass level. For lower volume listening, some will just use the trebble/bass control, some will use an EQ preset such as Dirac with more bass, some will use a loudness knob, and some preamps/receivers will have an equal loudness function that adjusts bass/trebble depending on the volume. But in order for you to hear and enjoy some bass at low levels you will need to increase it in order to hear it. How you do it will depend on the gear you have.
 

Acerun

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The ear does hear all frequencies in a linear manner. Someone I’m sure will explain it better, but if you look up equal loudness coutour or fletcher munson curve, you will see in order to hear the bass at the same level you will need to bump up your bass level. For lower volume listening, some will just use the trebble/bass control, some will use an EQ preset such as Dirac with more bass, some will use a loudness knob, and some preamps/receivers will have an equal loudness function that adjusts bass/trebble depending on the volume. But in order for you to hear and enjoy some bass at low levels you will need to increase it in order to hear it. How you do it will depend on the gear you have.
I see, like the RME which has loudness functionality at lower volume.
 

Dj7675

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I see, like the RME which has loudness functionality at lower volume.
Exactly... or the super low tech, often missing bass knob. Or if you use something like Roon (or other software player) that has EQ, you can add a low volume preset with increased bass EQ.
 

Acerun

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Exactly... or the super low tech, often missing bass knob. Or if you use something like Roon (or other software player) that has EQ, you can add a low volume preset with increased bass EQ.
I use a Denon X3700H and have run Audyssey32XT and then added a Harmon bass curve via the app.
 

djigibao

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Would this amp (Sony TA-A1ES @85W 8Ohm) be sufficient for these speakers?
I have REL for bass
 

ronnzi

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Hi everyone,

I’m thinking about switching out my current LCR setup to matching m106’s. It’s in a large room (20x30x10ft or so), though the system is in the front half of the room and I sit about 10ft away from the front speakers.

I currently run an SVS Ultra center, along with a pair of SVS Prime Pinnacles for my L/Rs, currently crossed at 80hz to dual Monolith 15 v2 subs. I use a MiniDSP and Dirac Live for room calibration.

The two main setups I’m thinking about switching to are either LCR m106s or KEF R3’s. The room isn’t formally treated and is pretty reflective (one wall is all windows, and I have a leather couch and small coffee table that causes some minor issues).

My main concern is losing the bigger sound stage and greater dynamics that the 3-way speakers I currently have, which feature dual 6.5in woofers (and I think 4inch mids?) currently provide.

I use this for maybe 60/40 movies/tv and music. I want something that sounds natural and clear. Ideally, I would save up for a c208/f208 setup, but I’m also not sure if they will fit as well given my current constraints.

Any thoughts? I keep bouncing back between Revel and KEF, so I thought I’d check here. I might also just not upgrade right now if I can’t make up my mind, lol.
 
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