Revel M106 Bookshelf Speaker Review

[Beave]

Haha, no problem. I'm not on a work computer or anything!

 

[walt99]

Learned something new today, never heard the term "Tits Machine" before, been around aviation for about 50yrs, the "old" war bird guys come up with some interesting stuff sometimes. I'll have to ask my friend who flies FiFi about it.

 

[BYRTT]

...Wish I knew how to work the plots like that, some impressive work! Thanks!!

Welcome should it happen you okay using free VituixCAD software i'm okay guide how to manipulate Amir's files so that his spindata is renamed to get the directional files tilted 90º to the right and left side so as CAD software see the cabinet lay down on the side, and by the way below is a link to a guide how to get any of Amir's reviews presented into VituixCAD so as to present whatever graphs and scales for oneself and create whatever EQ filter banks..

Link: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-vituixcad-using-amirs-shared-spindata.13136/

 

[MRavioli]

New here - just wondering why waterfall graphs are often not very popular..? Are they not a good indication of driver control, amp control, damping factor?

Also very surprised to see the incredibly low distortion of these Revel passive speakers even when compared with the test data for monitors like Adam S2V and Neumann 310. I have read countless articles/forums stating how much lower distortion % an active design can offer, but does not appear to be true based on this.

 

[MediumRare]

You mean like this one?

Probably because 1. The scaling is rarely consistent or related to audibility 2. Sometimes messy-looking resonances are inaudible.

I still like them. Pretty pictures.

 

[richard12511]

Forgive a stupid question, but I have a solid central image with my stereo speakers. What is the benefit of a center speaker?

It mainly benefits guests, imo. With just 2 speakers, it's usually just the one person in the sweet spot that gets the good center image. In a pure 2.1 setup, people sitting on the other side of the couch will hear voices coming from the right or left of the TV

 

[MRavioli]

You mean like this one?

View attachment 133562

Probably because 1. The scaling is rarely consistent or related to audibility 2. Sometimes messy-looking resonances are inaudible.

I still like them. Pretty pictures.

I just expected the decay time to be worse than an active speaker due to less control over the drivers through a passive crossover ... That Revel waterfall is one of the cleanest I've seen on this site.

 

[Jbrunwa]

I'm still searching for a center channel speaker that pairs well with my 328be's and fits in my AV cabinet under the TV. The cabinet has an 8.75" x 36" place for the center channel. I tried a KEF Q650 and currently have the BW HTM71-S2, but I still feel like I don't have the sound I'm looking for.
Would it be a stupid idea to use 2 of the M106's or 105's laying on their side for a center channel? I do have an extra amp channel available so that would not be an issue. I would love to use the C208 but its just to darn big. The C205 would fit but not sure it would be any better the the HTM71.

I just received and set up a C426 with my F328Bes. They match perfectly in my room. I had the opposite problem with the TV stand having too much height and purchased a sturdy monitor stand to raise the C426, but I would have (and still might) buy a new TV stand. Having the C426 at the right height makes a big difference.

 

[MRavioli]

Reading the Lenard Audio education pages and some of his comments on IMD... made me wonder, why does Amir not measure this? Lenard Audio imply that passive speakers suffer more in this regard - does that explain why something like the M106 appears to measure as well as many active designs in terms of distortion but we aren't seeing the full picture?

 

[Jbrunwa]

Reading the Lenard Audio education pages and some of his comments on IMD... made me wonder, why does Amir not measure this? Lenard Audio imply that passive speakers suffer more in this regard - does that explain why something like the M106 appears to measure as well as many active designs in terms of distortion but we aren't seeing the full picture?

I guess I don’t understand why IMD should be higher for passive speakers than active speakers. I thought that speaker IMD was a primarily a function of woofer and speaker cone interference when it is used full range, such as woofer cone excursion modulating higher frequencies, cabinet resonances, etc. I would have thought that 2 and 3 way designs and good cabinet design would minimize IMD. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable could enlighten me.

M106s produce excellent clarity and intelligibility IMHO.

 

[617]

I guess I don’t understand why IMD should be higher for passive speakers than active speakers. I thought that speaker IMD was a primarily a function of woofer and speaker cone interference when it is used full range, such as woofer cone excursion modulating higher frequencies, cabinet resonances, etc. I would have thought that 2 and 3 way designs and good cabinet design would minimize IMD. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable could enlighten me.

M106s produce excellent clarity and intelligibility IMHO.

An active speaker will experience less IMD from the amplifiers, as the two signals can't modulate each other since they are filtered out from each amp.

IMD is one of those things that can be measured but I don't believe anyone has shown it correlates to anything audible. Both active and passive networks can deliver state of the art performance with care.

Danley is all passive, for example.

 

[nerdoldnerdith]

It looks like the bookshelf versions of Revel's speakers like the M106 and M126Be have narrower horizontal dispersion than their tower counterparts:

M106:

F208:

What is happening here?

 

[Chromatischism]

What is happening here?

Dedicated midrange driver.

 

[nerdoldnerdith]

Dedicated midrange driver.

Why would that restrict the dispersion of the tweeter? Are they using a different waveguide with their bookshelves?

 

[Chromatischism]

Why would that restrict the dispersion of the tweeter? Are they using a different waveguide with their bookshelves?

The addition of the midrange gives broader dispersion.

 

[nerdoldnerdith]

The addition of the midrange gives broader dispersion.

How?

 

[Chromatischism]

How?

Small surface area. The bass driver narrows as it approaches higher frequencies, so handing off to something smaller maintains a wide dispersion. On some speakers I've noticed this width can increase brightness due to the increased wall reflections, so it's up to the designer to keep levels reasonable.

 

[nerdoldnerdith]

Small surface area. The bass driver narrows as it approaches higher frequencies, so handing off to something smaller maintains a wide dispersion. On some speakers I've noticed this width can increase brightness due to the increased wall reflections, so it's up to the designer to keep levels reasonable.

I understand that part. One would predict a narrowing of dispersion around the crossover region as the woofer begins to beam. But I am talking about higher frequencies where neither the woofer nor the midrange is operating. Why does the tweeter have narrower dispersion in these bookshelves?

 

[Chromatischism]

Ok, it wasn't clear you were talking about just the tweeter from your original message.

It's not easy to look at dispersion width with those charts, so let's look at the contour plots.

M106:

F208:

Unfortunately different scaling has been used over time, but you can see the midrange driver filling in the F208, as expected. Other than that, I am seeing ~75 degrees on both speakers until around 8 kHz.

 

[richard12511]

It looks like the bookshelf versions of Revel's speakers like the M106 and M126Be have narrower horizontal dispersion than their tower counterparts:

M106:
View attachment 150740
F208:
View attachment 150741

What is happening here?

Probably the dedicated midrange for the towers.