Revel M105 vs M106 -- how to interpret measurements?

[VintageFlanker]

Although each speaker has its strengths and weaknesses, on an absolute scale, both represent excellence for a bookshelf speaker costing around $2000/pair.

I think this sentence alone might sound a bit insane for both of us, @daftcombo .

For those who don't understand, both Daft combo and I bought our pair of 906s for 450€ or so. What I mean by this is: for the average French audiophile, the 906 is an "OK" speaker for the sub-1000€ range, nothing more... but for people overseas, it is a good value at $1,5K and competes against the similarly priced Revel 106.

Bottom line: Correlation between price and performance doesn't mean that much in audio, and is sometimes simply related to where you live...

 

[Bear123]

The Focal 906 are available new for $499 each in the states. Still quite a bit higher than your price in France of roughly $560. Thats quite a bargain! They do seam to measure well but I haven't seen full spin data:

https://soundstagenetwork.com/index...&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153

 

[DubbyMcDubs]

So I guess the M105's do measure better...

But if you get them, Sub(s) are highly recommended while you may be able to get away with no subs on the M106's

In my experience, if you don’t have the sub you will be missing out. While the 106 does have great bass for a bookshelf, it just won’t cut it compared to combining.

 

[jhaider]

The S1512 are fantastic little subs

Fantastic, likely. Big driver from a great maker, big power, large cabinet. But unless the dimensions on their website transposed from another product, "little" is a stretch.

Size (DxWxH) 18" x 17" x 17.25"

That's end table sized.

 

[Bear123]

Fantastic, likely. Big driver from a great maker, big power, large cabinet. But unless the dimensions on their website transposed from another product, "little" is a stretch.

Size (DxWxH) 18" x 17" x 17.25"

That's end table sized.

Its pretty tiny for a real sub. You'd need a much taller dimension to make it work as an end table. It will work well in music, ok for movies, but the small size limits its output for movies.

 

[A800]

I think this sentence alone might sound a bit insane for both of us, @daftcombo .

For those who don't understand, both Daft combo and I bought our pair of 906s for 450€ or so. What I mean by this is: for the average French audiophile, the 906 is an "OK" speaker for the sub-1000€ range, nothing more... but for people overseas, it is a good value at $1,5K and competes against the similarly priced Revel 106.

Bottom line: Correlation between price and performance doesn't mean that much in audio, and is sometimes simply related to where you live...

I have always been impressed with Focal.
At any price point.

 

[jhaider]

Its pretty tiny for a real sub. You'd need a much taller dimension to make it work as an end table. It will work well in music, ok for movies, but the small size limits its output for movies.

Again, you're calling a subwoofer that occupies over 2 square feet of floor "small." That is not a widely held view.

As for your claimed output needs, I'm sure I have written this before, but there's a lot of curve-chasing on audio forums that is at best orthogonal to performance improvements and often results to opportunity costs. Most listeners don't listen at deafening so-called "cinema reference" levels, and then on top of that apply ridiculous house curves. In the real world, multiple relatively small subwoofers can provide sufficient output and extension on top of the fidelity bonus over a wide listening area.

True, there are major and minor challenges to deploying multiple subwoofers. The major challenge is cable routing, which is even more expensive to do piecemeal than all at once and hard to get buy-in on because it requires at minimum patching and repainting walls. (That also means it may be impracticable for renters.) The minor challenge is buying more subwoofers.

Furthermore, "movies" is not synonymous with "some variation on a comic book, space war soap opera, or shoot-'em-up."

 

[richard12511]

Its pretty tiny for a real sub. You'd need a much taller dimension to make it work as an end table. It will work well in music, ok for movies, but the small size limits its output for movies.

I guess it depends on what one considers "small". I agree with you that those are fairly small subs.

 

[Bear123]

Again, you're calling a subwoofer that occupies over 2 square feet of floor "small." That is not a widely held view.

It’s kind of like saying “little bookshelf speakers with 4” drivers is massive over the top overkill” because many think a small sound bar is more than enough. It doesn’t change the fact that such a small bookshelf speaker is inadequate for full bandwidth high fidelity.
The little 17” cube subs I have are more than adequate for almost anyone’s music needs, but nowhere near capable enough for accurate movie reproduction unless absolute max listening level is -25. It’s just a fact of physics. Fortunately, I have two spots where a pair of 18” wide x 24” high x 24” deep subs will fit unobtrusively. And they will have enough capability for accurate reference level playback. In my case, a bit of overkill as the loudest I tend to watch a movie will be -10. But no matter how loud I listen or how hot I want to run the subs, they will do it accurately without distortion, noise, compression, or limiting. For music only systems, they would be massive overkill. But they would also serve perfectly as end tables since they are *actually* end table sized. . I’m sure you can’t wait to see them so I’ll post pics when they come in

 

[jhaider]

It’s kind of like saying “little bookshelf speakers with 4” drivers is massive over the top overkill” because many think a small sound bar is more than enough.

Resorting to silly analogies like that does not bolster your position.

The little 17” cube subs I have are more than adequate for almost anyone’s music needs, but nowhere near capable enough for accurate movie reproduction unless absolute max listening level is -25. It’s just a fact of physics.

You are making lots of unwarranted assumptions here related to program material, room gain, home construction, system tuning, and listening levels. I don't have time to unpack them.

For music only systems, they would be massive overkill.

That depends on what kinds of movies one watches, and what genres of music one enjoys. One cannot generalize. Someone who primarily watches news and arthouse flicks but loves EDM and organ music will have different requirements from someone who watches comic book movies and listens to smooth jazz.

 

[richard12511]

Resorting to silly analogies like that does not bolster your position.



You are making lots of unwarranted assumptions here related to program material, room gain, home construction, system tuning, and listening levels. I don't have time to unpack them.



That depends on what kinds of movies one watches, and what genres of music one enjoys. One cannot generalize. Someone who primarily watches news and arthouse flicks but loves EDM and organ music will have different requirements from someone who watches comic book movies and listens to smooth jazz.

Why does any of this matter? Those subs are "small" in his view, just as they are small in mine, but everyone is different. Whether or not you consider them small doesn't change the fact that they are small to him.

 

[jhaider]

Why does any of this matter? Those subs are "small" in his view.

There is a meaningful distinction between presenting an opinion and asserting facts based on misguided assumptions.

It matters because his comments are willfully misleading in the way that internet audio forums often are, and may discourage others from even trying to set up a high fidelity system by setting the bar unreasonably and unnecessarily high. An analogy to this kind of subwoofer silliness might be, oh man, you should ditch that DAC. It only has 96dB SINAD so it is holding you back. You need one with AT LEAST 116dB SINAD to be provably transparent.

It is again worth noting that Dr. Floyd Toole, who had little in the way of practical constraints on his own system - note the permanently modified Revel flagship speakers and custom engineered/fabricated mounts, custom engineered (for an earthquake zone) and fabricated metal brackets for 5 height speakers, Revel Gem wide speaker on a countertop, etc - is perfectly content with four old and smallish closed box subwoofers with 12" drivers for music and movies.

If 4 good but smallish subwoofers with 12" drivers in closed boxes are sufficient for one of the audio world's preeminent experts, one should weight contrary internet commentary accordingly.

 

[Bear123]

Resorting to silly analogies like that does not bolster your position.



You are making lots of unwarranted assumptions here related to program material, room gain, home construction, system tuning, and listening levels. I don't have time to unpack them.



That depends on what kinds of movies one watches, and what genres of music one enjoys. One cannot generalize. Someone who primarily watches news and arthouse flicks but loves EDM and organ music will have different requirements from someone who watches comic book movies and listens to smooth jazz.

It was a good analogy, actually. But, since your primary goal seems to be to nitpick and win an argument on the internet, I will concede and call you the winner. Congrats I guess?

 

[QMuse]

Whether or not you consider them small doesn't change the fact that they are small to him.

Nobody is trying to change his opinion, but rather to offer an alternative opinion. My guess is that most folks here would consider that particular sub "normal", but certainly not "small".

 

[Gatordaddy]

Talking about wrapping one's head around things in this 5" vs 6" question relative to the onset of distortion earlier (at lower volumes) in the smaller driver, doesn't this depend a lot on room size, distance to LP, and listening habits? I used to have a couple of B&W stand mounts with 6.5" LF drivers in a big room that opened into other rooms. They could not cut it at all. Now I have LS50's with subs in a medium 14'x18'x8' room and they can play loud enough without distortion.

I've been pondering the driver-size question as well (and might be in the market for a set of M105s or M106s when the future looks a little more certain). On one hand, I don't see why a speaker designed to provide output down to 50 hz wouldn't provide more output if crossed at 80 hz. But it is hard to determine if the output would be "sufficient" without performing compression testing (i.e. CEA-2010) or hearing them in your own space. Since passive speakers don't have protection circuitry in them it becomes risky.

 

[Ron Texas]

I've been pondering the driver-size question as well (and might be in the market for a set of M105s or M106s when the future looks a little more certain). On one hand, I don't see why a speaker designed to provide output down to 50 hz wouldn't provide more output if crossed at 80 hz. But it is hard to determine if the output would be "sufficient" without performing compression testing (i.e. CEA-2010) or hearing them in your own space. Since passive speakers don't have protection circuitry in them it becomes risky.

If I were considering a choice between the M105 and M106, I would go for the M106 for higher output and ignore the small difference in dispersion measurements. Just put them at ear level. At that price point I am partial to the R3's, but I already have LS50's and that just me and not the preference score.

As for an uncertain future, the last time things were this uncertain was probably right after 911. I get these strange premonitions that we are on the edge of an apocalypse although the reality is things are improving. It's going to be a long road.

 

[tonybarrett]

Dumb noob question but looking at m105 or m106 for v small 14 foot by 11 foot room. Speakers need to go along long wall, maybe one foot from wall. Not ideal, I realise. Only 100 dollar or so difference at discounted prices where I am. Would either or both models generate too much boomy bass in such a tight space? Many thanks

 

[jonfitch]

Dumb noob question but looking at m105 or m106 for v small 14 foot by 11 foot room. Speakers need to go along long wall, maybe one foot from wall. Not ideal, I realise. Only 100 dollar or so difference at discounted prices where I am. Would either or both models generate too much boomy bass in such a tight space? Many thanks

What kind of prices are you able to get?

 

[tonybarrett]

What kind of prices are you able to get?

1000 and 1200 Dollars equivalent

 

[tonybarrett]

1000 and 1200 Dollars equivalent

1100 to 1200, rather