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Revel M105 Bookshelf Speaker Review

Beave

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My final evaluation was the Cambridge CXA81 versus the Arcam SA20. The CXA81 had a slight edge on loud playing and rock but the SA20 won on mid-low volumes and did better with jazz and folk. Classical was a tie. Also I used no subs for testing and the Arcam SA20 seemed a little tighter and the CXA81 a bit beefier. Apart from the ergonomics it was very similar and I would have been probably just as happy with either one but when the wife piped in I now have an excuse if I ever want to replace it …

Currently listening to Dave Brubeck at a moderate volume and boy does it sound great on my Revel M105s - very happy.

The Cambridge has been returned. And since the sale at Crutchfield is off they can resell it for $200 more than I paid as a scratch and dent.

I'm guessing you didn't bother to level match for these comparisons, nor did you bother to try doing them blinded.
 

Narnian

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I used a Soulspeak amp switch I am sure may have affected the sound but it would have done equally. My wife would change it the switch (or not) when I left the room so I could not hear the click. Sometimes I would switch myself when I wanted to quickly check passages. I used a sound meter in my phone and a test tone to level the sound as much as possible.

The differences were very, very small and I would not bet anything on my ears as I have normal age related hearing loss. I would not be surprised if what I thought I heard wasn’t there at all. Was affected by my allergies and sinus drainage. Weather air pressure . My German Shepherd walking back and forth in between the speakers..

It was a win/win for sound but the Arcam clearly was better in ergonomics (look at the Cambridge vs the Arcam remotes.) The Arcam is backlit to boot!
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Beave

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Level matching with a phone SPL meter isn't good enough, if you want to be truly accurate about your comparison. Those differences that were "very, very small" were probably due to small level differences or other factors as you described.
 

holbob

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At least he had a go.
 

Narnian

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Level matching with a phone SPL meter isn't good enough, if you want to be truly accurate about your comparison. Those differences that were "very, very small" were probably due to small level differences or other factors as you described.
It is good enough for me. I am not going to spend hundreds of dollars to get a more accurate measurement to decide between two $1,000 amps. That is silly.
 

Beave

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It's also silly to base your purchasing decision on a flawed comparison, when you should be basing it on tangible differences (price, looks, power output, remote, ergonomics, etc). It's silly to say that one amp beats another for classical music but not for jazz. The amp doesn't know what genre of music is being played.
 

Narnian

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It's also silly to base your purchasing decision on a flawed comparison, when you should be basing it on tangible differences (price, looks, power output, remote, ergonomics, etc). It's silly to say that one amp beats another for classical music but not for jazz. The amp doesn't know what genre of music is being played.
Obviously you did not read everything I posted - read the thread. It was ergonomics that won in the end. Everything else being close enough it really did not matter. And if you are not familiar with different amps they can affect the sound because they are going to introduce different characteristics because of distortion, power, etc. One was a class G and another AB. Do class A, AB, D, tubes, etc all sound identical? Does every person hear identically? I strongly suspect hearing can be colored like taste because not everyones ear and pathway to the brain is identical.

If what you say is true then everybody should just get an Aiyima 07 or other cheap amp because every amp will sound the same.
 

Beave

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Sigh. You've been here four months. Have you read any of the threads about amplifier sound? This is not the thread for such discussion, and I'm not interested in re-hashing what has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum and others.
 

Narnian

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Yes I have. I like and agree with a lot of stuff here, however there is a lot of evidence what I am saying is true as well. This is not the only forum or group I learn from.

However, would you say the Aiyima A07 sounds the same as a McIntosh? Just a simple yes or no.
 

Beave

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If they both measure sufficiently well and are operating within their limits, yes.

But those are two big ifs.
 

Beave

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If you want to continue, start a new thread or take this to one of the many existing threads about whether or not amps sound the same when operating within their limits. This is not the place, and I will not respond here any more.
 

sarumbear

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Yes I have. I like and agree with a lot of stuff here, however there is a lot of evidence what I am saying is true as well. This is not the only forum or group I learn from.

However, would you say the Aiyima A07 sounds the same as a McIntosh? Just a simple yes or no.
I’m sure they won’t sound the same but which one is the correct one? :)
 
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Narnian

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If you want to continue, start a new thread or take this to one of the many existing threads about whether or not amps sound the same when operating within their limits. This is not the place, and I will not respond here any more.
Thank you. I am not going to pursue anything further.
 

MarkS

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Level matching with a phone SPL meter isn't good enough, if you want to be truly accurate about your comparison. Those differences that were "very, very small" were probably due to small level differences or other factors as you described.
Matching with a voltmeter at the speaker terminals is best practice, but here's another protocol that doesn't require matching at all:

Start with the volume at zero after every switch, and turn it up by ear only; do not look at the level indicator on the amp or preamp.

This precludes rapid switching, and makes it harder to hear any difference that might actually be there, but is much more in line with standard audiophile subjective judgments, which emphasize long-term listening over rapid switching.
 

Narnian

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I’m sure they won’t sound the same but which one is the correct one? :)
I suspect the primary reason will be affordability to the purchaser (plus ego, cool factor, impress fiends, etc.) between these two. I did have an Aiyima and though much better than I thought it would be it clearly felt a bit flat compared to a Denon I tried at the time.
 

Tangband

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This depends on your definition of "best placement." I have dual subs under my M105's as well in my near field setup. I can hear where my subs are located with an 80 Hz crossover when listening to music. Having the subs anywhere other than under/inline with the mains in my near field setup sounds worse, because the lower bass is not coming from the same space as the mid/upper bass, and I can hear it. Measurements mean nothing here, because it's a subjective human experience. It's not just frequency, it's location as well. I think that subs that are balanced in line with the stereo image sound better and more natural when listening to music, even if you could get the frequency response to measure "better" somewhere else in the room.
This is very true. And this is the problem of integration subwoofers with a small standmount speaker. This m105 has one of the best 5 inch drivers one can buy, but its not the best below 150 Hz.

The only way to gain overall soundquality with this m105 speakers, combining them with two subwoofers, is to have the crossover between 100-250 Hz ( both LP and HP ) . To do this, you need:

1. DIY two subwoofers as a 60 - 70 cm high stand below each m105. Each subwooferdriver will then be close to each m105 woofer. The subwoofer drivers should be placed at the top of each stand, pointing forward. Two 6 1/2 or 8 inch subwoofers can be used in each stand.

2. The two subwoofer stands should be connected in stereo, using both LP and HP crossover.

3. The m105 bass port should be plugged.

With this approach, you get very near the bigger Revel 208 speakers using the m105 bassdriver only as a midrange - as it was ment to be, in a threeway.

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Edit:
However - theres often a certain magic in the stereoimage of a small standmount speaker , and If you want to stick with the m105 as a freestanding speaker with ordinary stands, one can gain massive in bass quality If the speakers are optimaly integrated in the room for best perceived bass pitch - this is done by ear.
Here is how to do it:
 
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MediumRare

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Would the la 90 discrete drive these speakers ?
Yes, they would, but...
- With 86 dB sensitivity, the M105s are not especially loud
- My preference is to have 10x the power needed for regular listening to handle dynamics, so IMO the 40 W into 8 ohms of the LA90 Discrete is low in general
- So the answer for you will depend on your listening situation: for near field, 100% yes, for far field in a large room, perhaps no.
 
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