Revel M105 Bookshelf Speaker Review

[Trouble Maker]

What would be really interesting is to apply that filter and measure distortion with the Kipple.

It is more work with Klippel but I should be able to simulate something quickly with AP.

I've also been wondering what the spins/PIR/score would be with some of these filters applied that you use during the listening, not just the low frequency one. But not sure how much benefit it is for the cost of time to remeasure, or how difficult it is to apply the filter since it seems like it's maybe difficult to do in Klippel natively. It would probably be more interesting on something with worse linearity in the FR/PIR but good/even directivity, and one that you felt had a large positive impact on your subjective experience. It could be a piece of the puzzle to the theory out of 'with DSP how close can we get that speaker to one that is already good out of the box'.

 

[amirm]

Amir, is it fair of us to ask that you try the full scan once with whatever speaker you feel appropriate for the re-test whenever you find the time? This would satisfy the curiosity of a lot of us and we would most likely be able to use what we learn for our own needs.

I am not clear on your request. Rescan of what? An EQ? What good would that do other than show the simple effect of the EQ?

 

[Xyrium]

Nitpicking, but quite a few mentions of the B2031P, though I believe you meant B203"0"P. I would like to see measurements of the B2031A though!

As always, great work. You're listening notes weren't as lengthy and enthusiastic as the 106, but I was able to glean from your closing that you were pleased.

 

[amirm]

Nitpicking, but quite a few mentions of the B2031P, though I believe you meant B203"0"P.

Yes, I have to correct that in the spreadsheet. Thanks.

 

[amirm]

As always, great work. You're listening notes weren't as lengthy and enthusiastic as the 106, but I was able to glean from your closing that you were pleased.

Then that is a failing on my part. I could not be more satisfied with the M105.

 

[EchoChamber]

I believe Revel uses SB Acoustics drivers on theses speakers, no wonder they sound so good...

 

[hardisj]

Speaker Power Compression
I refined my speaker linearity test, reducing the output frequency to 80 Hz (from 200 Hz) and measured the speakers that are still sitting around my lab:

Thanks for the cleaned up version of the testing. This looks much more streamlined and easier to interpret.

To make sure I am reading this graphic correctly: These are the levels before your threshold of ndB compression? What is your compression threshold? 1dB?

The ±70° call-out and lines throws me. The beamwidth at 10kHz is ±50°; ±30° at 20kHz. Is there a reason you are choosing to use ±70° rather than the higher frequency limitation?

Your graphic for the recent Behringer has 70° noted which makes a bit more sense as does the Tannoy (both shown below for quick reference). I'm just trying to understanding where you draw the line (ha! no pun intended) with the frequency/beamwidth in your notes.

 

[napilopez]

Thanks @amirm!

Good agreement with Harmans btw, other than slightly less treble. Dashed is Harman:

 

[hardisj]

Here are the individual driver responses:

Is our 5000 Hz hump created by the ringing/break up of the woofer as circled?

I'd say so.

The interesting thing here is that there is no sign of this breakup in the HD results, though. Typically you see higher order distortion caused by cone breakup like this. I mean, there is a bit of increase in 3rd order at this same frequency but it's so low in level that it could also just be coincidence. It certainly isn't a "Hey, look at me!" type distortion byproduct that I am used to seeing.

 

[typericey]

Thanks for the review @amirm. Would you have the waterfall by any chance?

 

[amirm]

Thanks for the review @amirm. Would you have the waterfall by any chance?

Remembered a few minutes ago that I missed it. Just added it to the review.

 

[Xyrium]

Then that is a failing on my part. I could not be more satisfied with the M105.

Not a chance, just an indication of your backlog!

Edit: It was actually my own neglect. I failed to read between the images of the music you chose for your listening and all of the anecdotal input you provided. You did indeed provide quite a bit of feedback, on par, if not greater than the 106 review. Sorry about that, I read the conclusion and missed a big chunk of the review!

 

[beefkabob]

"earl window"

Nice review! I like the compression measurement. I'd like to see an equivalent distortion measurement. Did I miss it?

 

[Maiky76]

Yes, with EQ. I think there has been talk about wanting to see not just distortion changes but how the preference rating would change. I'm sure we can make educated guesses based on directivity ratings, but I think people want to see just how much "improvement" is possible. I acknowledge that this will be speaker dependent so the utility of this is limited. But then, that's a fancy machine you have there. lol. I do acknowledge that we would have to make this worth your time. I also acknowledge that this may not be a reasonable request.

Hi,

There is no need to redo a scan to know that, check the graph I have attached:
No EQ: 5.88
With Amirm EQ: 6.00
With the same EQ optimized for score: 6.06
Edit: I am not 100% sure about the Q definition of the Biquad used by Roon
Amirm 4800.0, -2.00, 4.00,...
Amirm Optimized 4890.0, -2.20, 1.90,...
So please take that with a grain of salt.
Amirm original EQ

What is interesting to me is that the bare response "voicing" is similar to the one I made for the EXT5 (EQ2) which score based
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ctive-speaker-review.13436/page-3#post-432075
i.e. a small bump in the mid to compensate for the directivity and decrease at HF to tame the energy of the waveguide.
I am not sure if the Revel team calculates the Olive score when they tune their products but I would think they have a hard look at the PIR/SP.

M

 

[MediumRare]

@amirm is there any way I could convince you to re-run the distortion test with the port plugs? I will use these quite close to the wall.

Harman says "Revel Performa3 bookshelf loudspeakers include a pair of foam port plugs that can be used to adjust the loudspeaker’s low-frequency performance in certain installation situations. If your loudspeakers are built into an entertainment center or shelving unit, or if the loudspeaker is located less than about two feet (0.61m) from walls or other large objects, inserting the port plugs into the loudspeaker’s port openings can reduce the overly-aggressive bass output that can be created by the speaker’s proximity to large surfaces that reflect bass energy."

 

[typericey]

Eager learner here. Please help me understand the waterfall, specifically as to why most speakers have longer decay in the bass region. Is it because speaker cabinets in general resonate in those frequencies no matter how well made/braced they are? Or are ports to blame?

 

[Casey Leedom]

...
I used over 800 measurement point which was sufficient to compute the sound field of the speaker. Measurement axis is the tweeter and no grill was used.

Temperature was 78 degrees. Measurement location is at sea level so you compute the pressure.
...

I'm curious. Why no grill? I've noticed that pulling the grills off of my speakers (Legacy Focus SE) significantly affects their "brightness" — to the point where they sound harsh. I'm guessing that the designer (Bill Dudleston) "tuned" the speakers to compensate for the filtering function of the grills ...

Casey

 

[MediumRare]

Also, @amirm would it be possible to:
1. Let us know what you think about the M105 compared to the M16. They seem to have a lot in common.
2. Run the waterfall consistently with the M16 (below; I think this would be good to standardize - it's the longer-time-period resonances that matter, correct? I'm a little concerned about the bass in the M105 blooming on and on.)

 

[pozz]

Eager learner here. Please help me understand the waterfall, specifically as to why most speakers have longer decay in the bass region. Is it because speaker cabinets in general resonate in those frequencies no matter how well made/braced they are? Or are ports to blame?

It's largely due to low frequency noise in Amir's garage. Woofers in general take longer to settle and will show longer decays, especially ported designs.

 

[beefkabob]

I'm curious. Why no grill? I've noticed that pulling the grills off of my speakers (Legacy Focus SE) significantly affects their "brightness" — to the point where they sound harsh. I'm guessing that the designer (Bill Dudleston) "tuned" the speakers to compensate for the filtering function of the grills ...

Casey

You have REW info to back that up? https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/grilles
It seems most speakers do best without the grills.