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Revel in-wall speaker measurements…spinorama, in room, Audysey XT32

Bear123

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With the recent talk and review of in wall speakers, I thought this might be an interesting topic. My main audio/video system is in my living room, so aesthetics play a big role in the selection and placement of equipment. As such, I decided to use in wall speakers for surrounds. There is no concern with sound bleeding to adjacent rooms as one wall is exterior and the other joins the dining room. I have an older home built in 1928, so walls are lathe and plaster. Speakers are mounted directly into the walls with no backer boxes or special enclosure. My thought is that this gives them quite a large enclosure, making them somewhat infinite baffle and perhaps improving low frequency output capability.

I selected Revel's cheapest in wall speakers for a number of reasons:
The spins don't look great look pretty terrible above 9KHz but to my eye, you have to move up quite high in the lineup to get a really good looking spin i.e. W893.
My budget was quite low for two reasons: these are only surround speakers, so arguably less critical than the LCR. Highly likely to be moving within a year(two years from date of purchase), so it made no sense to me to spend much. I'll just leave the speakers here rather than pay to patch up the walls.

Revel spin of the W263 in wall speaker:
Spin - Revel W263.png
 
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Bear123

Bear123

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Here are some in room measurements. First is the speakers ran full range with no eq. Not sure why there is so much disparity in low end extension….I may need to see if one has a much larger wall cavity, or if there is perhaps a poor seal on one of them? Maybe its just the specific mic position for the measurement. This was measured some time ago…I'll have to take several measurements in multiple locations to see if the disparity remains.
W263 FULL RANGE NO EQ ONE THIRD SMOOTHING.jpg

Summary…not atrocious? The surround right has respectable extension in room down to 50 Hz…plenty for crossing to subs at 80 or higher. The other rolls off below 70…still not atrocious considering these are the smallest, cheapest in walls Revel makes.
 
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Bear123

Bear123

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Here are the W263 in wall speakers with full range Audsey XT32 correction with a custom curve using the cell phone app. Oh, also crossed to subs obviously. I tried to dial in a bit of a downward slope as I found the speakers to have too much upper frequency energy. Subjectively, to me, I found it quite noticeable. I understand that only eq'ing up to Schroeder or so is optimal for well designed speakers, but honestly, I feel like full range correction on these is the lesser of two evils. Feel free to comment on this topic.
W263 in wall(with subs).jpg

Title on this graph is wrong as obviously, full range eq is in place.
 
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Bear123

Bear123

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Here are a couple of shots that show placement:
IMG_1791.JPG

Also illustrates pretty well how unobtrusively(IMO) they blend into the room without screaming "hey I'm a big box balancing precariously on a stand with wires hanging around".

IMG_3548.JPG
 
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Bear123

Bear123

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Oh, here's another interesting set of measurements. Default Audyssey XT32 full range correction vs the curve I made, also full range correction:
W263 XT32 default vs custom curve.jpg

I feel like I could have used a bit more of a downward slope from 1k to 10K…..maybe I'll play with it more one day.
 

Beershaun

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Thanks for this. Thinking the same thing with my first floor since we are done with our kindergarten pod we are going to convert it to a family room with a projector and surround sound.
A couple if questions if you don't mind.
1)How did get them wired in wall and how complicated/expensive was it?
2) where can someone get a copy of Revels spin data for their speakers so I can pick which I want for Atmos duty?
 
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Bear123

Bear123

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Thanks for this. Thinking the same thing with my first floor since we are done with our kindergarten pod we are going to convert it to a family room with a projector and surround sound.
A couple if questions if you don't mind.
1)How did get them wired in wall and how complicated/expensive was it?
2) where can someone get a copy of Revels spin data for their speakers so I can pick which I want for Atmos duty?
I had an electrician mount the speakers for me as sawing through lathe and plaster is a bit of a PITA, as is routing wires in wall. My house has a full basement, so I had him run 12ga copper wire down through the floor near my AVR into the basement, then up through the walls. Hard to say what the exact charge was as I had him run two 20 gauge dedicated lines into the living room for one of my subs and one for all the other AV equipment, along with the speaker installation which included running the wires. Pretty sure I paid about $300 for everything. I think the speakers were around $250ish for the pair.

Revel spin data:
Revel spin data
 

Beershaun

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Thanks. I'll have to seek or an electrician or home theater company to come take a look at my situation. Since I'm on a slab my options may be more complicated.

Thanks for sharing the post with the spin data
 

Matias

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Oh, here's another interesting set of measurements. Default Audyssey XT32 full range correction vs the curve I made, also full range correction:
View attachment 140342
I feel like I could have used a bit more of a downward slope from 1k to 10K…..maybe I'll play with it more one day.
Try a linear tilt of -6 dB from 100 Hz to 20 kHz and see if you like it.
 

q3cpma

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Even the most mediocre in-wall speaker will measure better than Genelecs in-room due to the absence of SBIR.

Focal has also gorgeous in-wall series.
Why not both?
PDAIW2510.jpg

AIW26BmkII_7.jpg

Anyway, my understanding from Genelec and Neumann's doc is that SBIR isn't that severe when the speaker is either stuck very close to the wall or far enough (>= 1.2 m) with a subwoofer. What I'd like to know is how LF directivity is affected when the wall is acoustically hard.
index.php
 

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Bear123

Bear123

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Try a linear tilt of -6 dB from 100 Hz to 20 kHz and see if you like it.
When I play with things again, I may give Ratbudyssey a try although I'm not sure if its available for Mac.
 

DanTheMan

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I swear my next house I’m doing in wall speakers! Love the look and lack of SBIR. I bet you can hyperactivate some room modes and get free bass extension as well.
 
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Bear123

Bear123

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I swear my next house I’m doing in wall speakers! Love the look and lack of SBIR. I bet you can hyperactivate some room modes and get free bass extension as well.
I've got bass extension covered. :D Speakers are actually the weak link in my system, if being honest.
 

ROOSKIE

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Even the most mediocre in-wall speaker will measure better than Genelecs in-room due to the absence of SBIR.

Focal has also gorgeous in-wall series.
Wouldn't really create an absence of SBIR, the rear wall, ceiling, side walls, floor and any other large object in the room are still factors. The "front" wall (front being whatever wall the speaker is mounted in, so side walls for surrounds) is mitigated and that is a big one though certainly not the only offender.
 

a|F

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Great info Bear, thanks for sharing. There's a W990 headed to Amir now, so hopefully we get some great data in the coming months. It's difficult to imagine a Revel 3-way with 9" woofer not being a great solution with a little EQ.

PS- they're huge. The wife will be a bit surprised by that.
 
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Bear123

Bear123

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Great info Bear, thanks for sharing. There's a W990 headed to Amir now, so hopefully we get some great data in the coming months. It's difficult to imagine a Revel 3-way with 9" woofer not being a great solution with a little EQ.

PS- they're huge. The wife will be a bit surprised by that.
Cool, will be interesting to see them tested, and hopefully hear about your thoughts once you get them in place. For surround duty and inexpensive speakers, I wasn't overly concerned with the quality of the enclosure(my walls). However, if I were springing for higher quality in walls for the front three, I'd be tempted to address enclosure quality. In other words, I'm not sure if large, unbraced sheets of drywall are optimal or adequate for an enclosure for mains. What are your plans for mounting?
 

thebabyparrot

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Are there any panels you can install the speakers into? That way they can easily be moved around?
 
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