Revel F36 upgrade from current Klipsch RF 7 II?

[Kungen2]

So I currently have Klipsch RF 7 II (retail around 6000 € for the newer III) and I found the Revel F36 used for 1000€. so it is a very different price range but still interesting considering the rave reviews of Revel and the not so nice measurements of the Klipsches.

Other info: I have two Klipsch reference 15 inch subs, a WIIM Ultra (allows for PEQ and room correction) and two Fosi audio V3 mono blocks. The room is large and is open to the rest of the house. I’m seated about 3,5 meters from the speakers. I love playing really loud and clean as well as listening to lower volumes and ALL types of music. The RF 7 are really nice according to my ears after some room correction. Reason for changing would be curiosity in regards to me being even happier with the sound and higher WAF.

Question, 1) would I lose a lot of the “unmeasurable” dynamics of the Klipsches?
2) Will the Revels be clearly better at other aspects
3) Will I be able to play loud enough with the Revels and the Fosi V3s?
4) How important are the better measurements of the Revels considering some of that can be changed with room correction?
5) Other input and thoughts are appreciated

 

[AnalogSteph]

The RF 7 are really nice according to my ears after some room correction.

The measurements do indicate that they should EQ decently. You may not get rid of the 3ish kHz dip entirely but it should be quite acceptable. With a 1.2 kHz crossover to twin 10"s the vertical likely isn't that even, so getting the height right would be kind of important.

Since these are relatively narrow directivity, I'd take a page from Earl Geddes and cross the axes in front of the MLP for a larger sweet spot. (Rerun Dirac measurements just in case.)

Question, 1) would I lose a lot of the “unmeasurable” dynamics of the Klipsches?

You'd lose about 5 dB of sensitivity. The RF7 II seems to be at about 96 dB SPL @ 2.83 V. That's twin 10"s for ya. I imagine the F36 won't be a slouch with its up to 3 6.5"s, but that's still little more than half the Sd in comparison. As they say, there is no replacement for displacement.

3) Will I be able to play loud enough with the Revels and the Fosi V3s?

If you can live with 5 dB less than what you have now... (You reckon about 110 dB SPL peak will do?)

Probably yes, but I wouldn't bet my hat on it. You have a somewhat larger than average listening distance in a large room and don't seem to be shy in terms of listening levels.

2) Will the Revels be clearly better at other aspects

They would probably sport a larger, more diffuse soundstage, which a lot of people like (correctness is up for debate - I would want to sit a good bit closer to them, do you think that's an option?). They are likely to do somewhat better on neutrality, and should be better-behaved when moving up and down. They will be involving the room a lot more, for better or worse.

4) How important are the better measurements of the Revels considering some of that can be changed with room correction?

The keyword being some. Which may even be quite a bit, in fact. I'd like to imagine that if I managed to straighten out this mess (a 4" bookshelf with a single capacitor crossover and cone tweeter behind an acoustic lens) to a rather acceptable degree, your RF7s shouldn't be that much of a tough nut to crack.

You could still try to get a loaner pair of Revels or something if you're that curious.

 

[kyuu]

You'd lose about 5 dB of sensitivity. The RF7 II seems to be at about 96 dB SPL @ 2.83 V.

Where did you get the sensitivity spec for the RF7? The official spec is 100dB, which is nonsense of course like all of Klipsch's sensitivity specs. I'd normally be willing to wager that it's no better than 90dB, so about the same as the Revel F36, but a quick search isn't revealing a proper measurement of the RF7.

 

[Mr. Widget]

So I currently have Klipsch RF 7 II (retail around 6000 € for the newer III) and I found the Revel F36 used for 1000€. so it is a very different price range but still interesting considering the rave reviews of Revel and the not so nice measurements of the Klipsches.

Other info: I have two Klipsch reference 15 inch subs, a WIIM Ultra (allows for PEQ and room correction) and two Fosi audio V3 mono blocks. The room is large and is open to the rest of the house. I’m seated about 3,5 meters from the speakers. I love playing really loud and clean as well as listening to lower volumes and ALL types of music. The RF 7 are really nice according to my ears after some room correction. Reason for changing would be curiosity in regards to me being even happier with the sound and higher WAF.

Question, 1) would I lose a lot of the “unmeasurable” dynamics of the Klipsches?
2) Will the Revels be clearly better at other aspects
3) Will I be able to play loud enough with the Revels and the Fosi V3s?
4) How important are the better measurements of the Revels considering some of that can be changed with room correction?
5) Other input and thoughts are appreciated

Two principal questions.

Do you like the sound of your current speakers?
Do you like to playback at higher SPLs?

Klipsch speakers tend to have a distinctive sound quality. In my opinion that sound tends towards a slightly forward midrange that can be a bit harsh, but many people like them and you may be in that camp.

The Revels are far more neutral. Some people find that boring and "uninvolving" others appreciate the more neutral presentation. Additionally the Revels have a far better polar response so they are easier to equalize for ideal in-room performance.

Regarding playback SPLs, the Klipsch are definitely more sensitive and will definitely be louder in the midband where our ears are more sensitive, so you will lose a noticeable max SPL capability. Depending on how loudly you like to playback your music this may or may not matter.

 

[kyuu]

Regarding playback SPLs, the Klipsch are definitely more sensitive and will definitely be louder in the midband where our ears are more sensitive, so you will lose a noticeable max SPL capability. Depending on how loudly you like to playback your music this may or may not matter.

Before making definitive judgements like this, do we have any idea what the actual sensitivity of the RF7 is? We know for a fact that Klipsch's sensitivity specs are wildly inflated, and when measured they are no more sensitive than competing designs almost as a rule.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Before making definitive judgements like this, do we have any idea what the actual sensitivity of the RF7 is? We know for a fact that Klipsch's sensitivity specs are wildly inflated, and when measured they are no more sensitive than competing designs almost as a rule.

You are right to ask, but I'm reasonably certain the Klipsch speakers are not "goosing" their numbers by a full 10dB. They are typically over stating their sensitivity by 3-6dB. Revel tends to over state theirs by 1-2dB... also, subjectively with the forward midrange sound quality of the Klipsch speakers, they will "sound" louder which was my point.

 

[kyuu]

You are right to ask, but I'm reasonably certain the Klipsch speakers are not "goosing" their numbers by a full 10dB.

You'd be surprised. Klipsch RP404: spec'd at 97dB, measured at 87dB. Klipsch RP-8000F II: spec'd at 98dB, measured at ~91dB. No argument about the forward midrange (and treble).

 

[Kungen2]

Thanks for all the input so far! I would also like to throw in the Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary in the mix. I realized that I can get them really cheap. But they would play less loud then the Revels right?

 

[Kungen2]

And yes I do like the sound of the Klipsch after correcting them with PEQ. The maximum SPL is plenty and it sounds amazing at the same time. Remember i have solid subwoofers so they will take care of the bass. I could forsake some of the loudest volume if other things are much better.

 

[kyuu]

Thanks for all the input so far! I would also like to throw in the Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary in the mix. I realized that I can get them really cheap. But they would play less loud then the Revels right?

They are indeed significantly less sensitive than either the Klipsch or Revel options at around 85dB. They're certainly still a very decent speaker.

 

[AnalogSteph]

Before making definitive judgements like this, do we have any idea what the actual sensitivity of the RF7 is? We know for a fact that Klipsch's sensitivity specs are wildly inflated, and when measured they are no more sensitive than competing designs almost as a rule.

Klipsch RF-7 II Measurements (frequency response, impedance & waterfall)

I recently auditioned the Klipsch RF7 IIs and was impressed. Since then I have been trying to find out any impedance and frequency measurements. Finally, I ended up buying the review from a German Audio magazine. I have attached the measurements to this thread. There are a few issues I was concer...

community.klipsch.com

Also to note, these measurements were done supplying 2.0 volts to get 90dB sensitivity, which went up to 96.3 with 2.83volts, still lower than 101dB.

 

[Oddball]

I don't think that Revels would be able to match the output (just extrapolating from my lesser RP 8000s). Klipsch are really fun speakers for HT, but I would only run them if really pushing their low end.

Where are you crossing over the towers though and when you say "loud" what exactly that is on the master volume (although if you have significant trims or boosts on the processor that also might be relevant).

 

[kyuu]

Klipsch RF-7 II Measurements (frequency response, impedance & waterfall)

I recently auditioned the Klipsch RF7 IIs and was impressed. Since then I have been trying to find out any impedance and frequency measurements. Finally, I ended up buying the review from a German Audio magazine. I have attached the measurements to this thread. There are a few issues I was concer...

community.klipsch.com

Edit: Retracting previous statement. I failed to understand that the measurement was taken at 2.0 volts instead of 2.83. Thanks for the link.

 

[Mr. Widget]

And yes I do like the sound of the Klipsch after correcting them with PEQ. The maximum SPL is plenty and it sounds amazing at the same time. Remember i have solid subwoofers so they will take care of the bass. I could forsake some of the loudest volume if other things are much better.

Since you have been able to make your current speakers work for you, I suggest keeping what you have until you have the means to make a much more significant upgrade.

 

[thegeton]

So I currently have Klipsch RF 7 II (retail around 6000 € for the newer III) and I found the Revel F36 used for 1000€. so it is a very different price range but still interesting considering the rave reviews of Revel and the not so nice measurements of the Klipsches.

Other info: I have two Klipsch reference 15 inch subs, a WIIM Ultra (allows for PEQ and room correction) and two Fosi audio V3 mono blocks. The room is large and is open to the rest of the house. I’m seated about 3,5 meters from the speakers. I love playing really loud and clean as well as listening to lower volumes and ALL types of music. The RF 7 are really nice according to my ears after some room correction. Reason for changing would be curiosity in regards to me being even happier with the sound and higher WAF.

Question, 1) would I lose a lot of the “unmeasurable” dynamics of the Klipsches?
2) Will the Revels be clearly better at other aspects
3) Will I be able to play loud enough with the Revels and the Fosi V3s?
4) How important are the better measurements of the Revels considering some of that can be changed with room correction?
5) Other input and thoughts are appreciated

Spinorama for the F36 can be found here.

I have a pair of F36 and prefer them to my Heresy II, both with and without PEQ & Sub integration via miniDSP SHD. YMMV.

 

[Kungen2]

Klipsch RF-7 II Measurements (frequency response, impedance & waterfall)

I recently auditioned the Klipsch RF7 IIs and was impressed. Since then I have been trying to find out any impedance and frequency measurements. Finally, I ended up buying the review from a German Audio magazine. I have attached the measurements to this thread. There are a few issues I was concer...

community.klipsch.com

So 2 volts to get 90 dB, is that the normal voltage to measure sensitivity? Or how should I understand the information? Is it the same as the Revel F36?

 

[Kungen2]

Since you have been able to make your current speakers work for you, I suggest keeping what you have until you have the means to make a much more significant upgrade.

Well, curiosity, higher WAF and lower cost isn’t too bad reasons to change. IF I also get better sound reproduction it is a no brainer right.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Well, curiosity, higher WAF and lower cost isn’t too bad reasons to change. IF I also get better sound reproduction it is a no brainer right.

If you or your wife think the Revels look better, that is certainly valid. To me they look equally........
Regardless, it sounds like you are itching to try something new. Can you try them and return them if they don't satisfy that itch?

 

[AnalogSteph]

So 2 volts to get 90 dB, is that the normal voltage to measure sensitivity? Or how should I understand the information? Is it the same as the Revel F36?

2 Vrms is 1 W into 4 ohms. The standard would be 2.83 V or 1 W into 8 ohms @ 1 m anechoic. BTW, now that I think about it, the difference between them should be 3 dB, not 6. Either way, they're reaching up to 92-93 dB in critical areas und never less than 89 dB, so we're talking at least 92 dB and often 95 or even 96 dB / 2.83 V / m. Decidedly above average. As you would expect with that much woofer area going around, though that's obviously a major function of fs as well (the Purifi 10" driver only manages 84 dB but is also tuned to 22 Hz - you will notice that the expression for efficiency contains an fs³ term, so fs only needs to change by about a factor of 1.26 = ³√(2) for a sensitivity change of 3 dB).

 

[Kungen2]

If you or your wife think the Revels look better, that is certainly valid. To me they look equally........
Regardless, it sounds like you are itching to try something new. Can you try them and return them if they don't satisfy that itch?

I’m buying used ones so no I cant try and return. But I could buy them and try them side by side I guess and sell the ones I like the least.