Tom C
Major Contributor
I know I will be corrected if I’m wrong. But I’m not wrong. Dr. F. Toole pointed to Revel F36 as the point of diminishing returns. So,spend a lot more, get a little more
Revel F36
Revel F36
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Revel F35 Speaker Review
- Thread starter amirm
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2Sunny
Active Member
They're actually my speakers he's testing. I bought them so I could compare them to my F36s and F226s, but I saw him reply on a thread on Rockville towers on AVS and sent him a PM asking if he'd be interested in reviewing the F35s and lo' and behold he responded right away. I'm curios to see a fresh take on these after so many great alternatives have come out.
2Sunny
Active Member
Hmmm. You certainly peaked my interest. Gonna have to search the web to see if I can find the remark.
Power Pop 23
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Regarding value and diminishing returns....
In post #124 of Amir's review of the Revel F206 loudspeaker, Dr. Sean Olive said the F206 was the main L/R speakers in his system and they were so good it was hard to justify replacing them with the Revel F226Be. Later, in post #158, Dr. Olive acknowledged he had not recently done an A-B comparison.
In post #124 of Amir's review of the Revel F206 loudspeaker, Dr. Sean Olive said the F206 was the main L/R speakers in his system and they were so good it was hard to justify replacing them with the Revel F226Be. Later, in post #158, Dr. Olive acknowledged he had not recently done an A-B comparison.
This comment helps while I see the Be series on sale..l really like my F36s but can't help but wonder.
CJPopovich
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I have or had both Be and non-Be Revel speakers, and enjoyed all of them; 105's, 106's, 126Be's, F226Be's, F328Be's. Among other things, the Be tweeter is, to me, a significant difference and worth the price of admission. The point of diminishing returns is going to partly depend on preferences, IMO that tweeter is well worth the extra coin.
The f36's are pretty good....fomo is a common ( in my mind) but wasted emotion.... If you like what you have * and * the next step up is a hardship it's a waste.. If you have money to blow : go for it...
Alice of Old Vincennes
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F36 good enough. I’m 73 with impaired hearing
I listen at around 77db around 10 ft from the speakers and my hearing plummets at 12.5k. Is this something I am likely able to discern in your opinion? I know sometimes the tweeter is judged beyond that range, so curious if that is your case. Also curious if the distortion difference between the F36 and Be series would be detectable at this volume?
On the other comment above, the FOMO is definately something that impacts me, so the diminishing returns comment possibly by Dr Toole meantioned above may be the Rx I need. The F36s were a revelation for me, in particular the more even frequency response than what I had prior.
The only listening impression I have that causes me to wonder is I sometimes detect what I can only describe as a bit of dry (chalky? not grainy) rarely in music but moreso in movies/shows, so maybe that is bad streaming quality or just my imagination.
CJPopovich
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I can listen to the Be at significantly louder volumes without a sense of harshness -they just get louder, not more harsh until you're really pushing limits. They do extend beautifully, but IMO most of the magic is under that 12.5k threshold, although I do notice clearly being able to better hear very high frequency details in some of the music that I listen to, such as Telefon Tel Aviv, where they layer and use a variety of high frequency synthesized sounds. Not a bit of grain, very smooth and detailed.
The big difference I felt was the sense of dynamics. The Be tweeter, along with the rest of the design of course, has some serious dynamics. The bigger ones can startle you with dynamics -in my opinion encroaching on some compression driver/horn designs. FWIW I like the F328Be better than the F226Be tweeter, and I've been told, and understand, the difference to be minimal -might be the room interaction with the different tweeter height, bias since I bought the bigger ones, your guess is as good as mine.
I'm not a big fan of chasing targets or the next speaker upgrade. I fully understand diminishing returns and bought the F328's to replace the F226's believing I was moving well past the point of those diminishing returns. I picked up the F328's because they were on sale, and I really thought the triple 8" woofers would be easier to integrate with my subwoofer designs (which they are). I was curious about the latest waveguide. I wasn't prepared to feel like they were a better value than the F226's, and if you tell me that there is no way they should be considered a better value, I'd agree with you on paper and scratch my bald head wondering why, but at the end of the day I was much happier with the F328's than the F226's, subwoofers used with both, same room, same electronics. It's been almost a year with the F328's, life has been full of challenges and still, if I sit down in front of them even if in a foul mood just... wait a song or two. They'll win you over.
If you can demo them, maybe there is a little magic in it for you. The other series are still very good speakers, no complaints there -I have some 105's at work, my wife has a pair in her office too, and I had the 106's, which is what started me on checking out the Revel brand. When I find a new song though, I'll often send text it to the wife and we'll make plans to listen on the big Be's later that night. I actively listen to the F328's much more than any other speaker -they make me want to listen, they're a real trip.
So, not helpful to you probably. Definitely don't overextend yourself for them unless you can swing them, and listen to them and they flip your knickers. They flipped mine. Best of luck and happy listening.
Chris
The big difference I felt was the sense of dynamics. The Be tweeter, along with the rest of the design of course, has some serious dynamics. The bigger ones can startle you with dynamics -in my opinion encroaching on some compression driver/horn designs. FWIW I like the F328Be better than the F226Be tweeter, and I've been told, and understand, the difference to be minimal -might be the room interaction with the different tweeter height, bias since I bought the bigger ones, your guess is as good as mine.
I'm not a big fan of chasing targets or the next speaker upgrade. I fully understand diminishing returns and bought the F328's to replace the F226's believing I was moving well past the point of those diminishing returns. I picked up the F328's because they were on sale, and I really thought the triple 8" woofers would be easier to integrate with my subwoofer designs (which they are). I was curious about the latest waveguide. I wasn't prepared to feel like they were a better value than the F226's, and if you tell me that there is no way they should be considered a better value, I'd agree with you on paper and scratch my bald head wondering why, but at the end of the day I was much happier with the F328's than the F226's, subwoofers used with both, same room, same electronics. It's been almost a year with the F328's, life has been full of challenges and still, if I sit down in front of them even if in a foul mood just... wait a song or two. They'll win you over.
If you can demo them, maybe there is a little magic in it for you. The other series are still very good speakers, no complaints there -I have some 105's at work, my wife has a pair in her office too, and I had the 106's, which is what started me on checking out the Revel brand. When I find a new song though, I'll often send text it to the wife and we'll make plans to listen on the big Be's later that night. I actively listen to the F328's much more than any other speaker -they make me want to listen, they're a real trip.
So, not helpful to you probably. Definitely don't overextend yourself for them unless you can swing them, and listen to them and they flip your knickers. They flipped mine. Best of luck and happy listening.
Chris
That's the attitude I'm getting....I have different very good budget speakers ( modded emotiva b1s )... But set up properly: these aren't going to get shamed at moderate volume by much of anything under/at $1000 A pair or less, and right now that's the top end of my budget anyway...when I get some coin to blow I'll upgrade to something like Philharmonic bmr monitors and be done with upgrades
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Luvchampagne
Active Member
I bought the F36 for my GF. Didn't expect much but the reviews were good. Blew me away. I'm sure the f206 and f208 measure better but in a real world imperfect room, I was shocked how good they were. Paid $1200 less a discount.
Tom C
Major Contributor
It wasn’t in print. It was a remark he made in a video of him giving a lecture to a group of university students. The video has been posted here at ASR several times.
Luvchampagne
Active Member
I have the M16 with a subwoofer in my bedroom setup and the Salon2 in my main 2 channel. I spent 5 days dialing in the F36 with different amps and switched between my Salon2 and the F36. Brought down my M16 as well. They are all good speakers. You just get more as you go up the chain. If you didn't hear the Salon2, you'd be happy with the F36.
Appreciate that detailed response. Listening to Telefon Tel Aviv now based on your description. The depth/imaging on some songs is crazy even on my F36s. Hard to imagine this on F328s.
For my budget, just the F226be at 4k (sale) vs the 1.2k (sale) I paid recently for the F36s, is kind of big step, so that jump in audible improvement would need to be pretty obvious at normal/routine listening levels. I'm sure it is on the 328s, but that's a speaker for an alternate time-line version of me, where my wife is also into this hobby.
CJPopovich
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When I got the F226's, it was to step up from M106's. I was very pleased with everything except the bass. My room is difficult and I am a bit of a bass head, so take that with a grain of salt. I really liked the F226's, I think I paid $4600 for mine when I got them. I personally feel the Be tweeter is worth a lot. For 4k, if you can get a decent price for your old speakers and bring the cost to you down some more maybe it's worth the stretch. I'm not sure if they have them but reach out to Rex at the screeningroomav, I've picked up half a dozen pairs of speakers from him and it was always a great deal, zero haggling, zero bs. Glad you like TTA, not everyone's cup of tea but they make some remarkable music.
2Sunny
Active Member
I am by no means an audiophile and admittedly my hearing is only average at best for my age, but I own both the F36 and the F226 and have compared them side by side. Initially when I first got the 226s and compared them to my F36s I felt I could hear a tiny difference and thought I could pick out the F226 in a comparison, but when I revisited the comparison a month later and this time did it blind I failed to pick the songs being played by the 226s versus the 36s.
I want to emphasize that I fully believe others can tell the difference, but just saying that to my untrained ear (and I consider myself to have "average" hearing) there was no difference in music between the 226 and 36, and most importantly from my perspective if there is a difference it absolutely is not worth the difference in price.
Standby for further investigation as I purchased F35s recently and am curios to see how they sound compared to my F36s. I should point out that I always listen with subs attached as I will never have a system without a sub so I see no point in listening to speakers without using a subwoofer.
rsc1
Member
I've been eyeing the F35s for my living room for a while now...why aren't the black ones on sale too...
Good on you for not trying to justify the 226s into being better because they cost more. If they sound just as good to you in an unsighted comparison, keep the cheaper ones! If I recall correctly the 226s are tuned to be a bit darker than the F35/F36 (as in steeper PIR slope). F35 should sound very similar to F36 especially when paired with subs. You might be able to hear a bit more "air" in upper treble on F35, but think it depends on your hearing. (Vendor data because there's no Klippel data of F36.)
2Sunny
Active Member
Lucky me I can spend a little cash to entertain my curiosity hence my willingness to pay for 226s AND 35s when I already own 36s. At the moment I'm having a ton of fun just learning and testing especially now that I have specific items that I am testing. I recently discovered the video below. I'm sure there are others and other ways to test the same items he is testing, but being told precisely what to listen for and then being able to hear what you're supposed to hear is . . . I think . . . really, really cool. As an example Erin points out that in I'm on Fire by Bruce Springsteen the drum should sound like it's BEHIND the left speaker if your speakers have a good sound stage, and that's exactly what I get with both my 36s and 226s. Now to test the 35s which I fully expect will do just fineI've been eyeing the F35s for my living room for a while now...why aren't the black ones on sale too...
Good on you for not trying to justify the 226s into being better because they cost more. If they sound just as good to you in an unsighted comparison, keep the cheaper ones! If I recall correctly the 226s are tuned to be a bit darker than the F35/F36 (as in steeper PIR slope). F35 should sound very similar to F36 especially when paired with subs. You might be able to hear a bit more "air" in upper treble on F35, but think it depends on your hearing. (Vendor data because there's no Klippel data of F36.)
Still haven't made up my mind which speakers I will ultimately be keeping (on a totally separate note I've also purchased and will be receiving tomorrow a pair of Ascend Acoustic ELXs w/ Titan tweeters) but I expect more than likely it will be the 35s & 36s. I have a HT in my living room and another in my man cave so I will ultimately need 2 pair of towers.
rsc1
Member
That's an awesome lineup. Curious what you think of the ELXs, definitely report back with your findings. I've been tempted to buy the Sierra 1 V2s on numerous occasions. If you ever get tired of the F35/F36s I'd be happy to take them off your hands! As long as they're black...I love the white personally, but my wife would kick me out of the house.Lucky me I can spend a little cash to entertain my curiosity hence my willingness to pay for 226s AND 35s when I already own 36s. At the moment I'm having a ton of fun just learning and testing especially now that I have specific items that I am testing. I recently discovered the video below. I'm sure there are others and other ways to test the same items he is testing, but being told precisely what to listen for and then being able to hear what you're supposed to hear is . . . I think . . . really, really cool. As an example Erin points out that in I'm on Fire by Bruce Springsteen the drum should sound like it's BEHIND the left speaker if your speakers have a good sound stage, and that's exactly what I get with both my 36s and 226s. Now to test the 35s which I fully expect will do just fine
Still haven't made up my mind which speakers I will ultimately be keeping (on a totally separate note I've also purchased and will be receiving tomorrow a pair of Ascend Acoustic ELXs w/ Titan tweeters) but I expect more than likely it will be the 35s & 36s. I have a HT in my living room and another in my man cave so I will ultimately need 2 pair of towers.
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