Revel F35 Speaker Review

[GXAlan]

Amir, I am confused. Revel first introduced waveguide in 2005 with concerta and performa. JBL waited until M2? JBL history on waveguide hard to follow.

As best as I know, the JBL team did not follow along with advanced research that Dr. Toole, etc. brought to Harman. Some time later they were put in the same group and then collaboration started. And has accelerated since given the high adoption of waveguide technology in JBL speakers.

Didn’t the JBL S58 (Greg Timbers/Floyd Toole) and Infinity Intermezzo (Allan Devantier/Floyd Toole) line have waveguides in 2001?

 

[tuga]

Amir, I am confused. Revel first introduced waveguide in 2005 with concerta and performa. JBL waited until M2? JBL history on waveguide hard to follow.

The LSR-series from the late 90s (the owner's manual is dated 8/98) used waveguides:

 

[Balle Clorin]

As a follow-up to my post#49 regarding the Revel F36 speaker in room measurement
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/revel-f35-speaker-review.12053/post-350777
I have compared the measured low frequency response measured in my room for L, L+R, R speaker with the simulator in REW
The main peaks and valley fit somewhat OK

Measurement on top , simulation below...speaker at 20% of room length, microphone at 70%

PS I bought the F36 speakers after 3 weeks of measurements and listening and selling off other stuff to get $.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

The LSR-series from the late 90s (the owner's manual is dated 8/98) used waveguides:

So JVC employed waiveguide wayy before Revel.

 

[lonewolf]

Revel, and Kevin Voecks himself, explicitly stated that they envisioned the Concerta2 speakers being purchased by users likely to run off of "... very, very low cost receivers." Thus efficiency was a factor in the design philosophy.

What's wrong with that? I have the F35s and they sound fantastic. The measurements back it up. So why do you think this as a 2.5-way is "bad"?

Didn’t the JBL S58 (Greg Timbers/Floyd Toole) and Infinity Intermezzo (Allan Devantier/Floyd Toole) line have waveguides in 2001?

The Infinity Reference 2000.6 from... 1996 I think, also had a waveguide.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

measurements

Its not.

 

[AVKS]

What's wrong with that? I have the F35s and they sound fantastic. The measurements back it up. So why do you think this as a 2.5-way is "bad"?

I didn't say it was bad - I was responding to the poster quoted in my message. I also run the F35s, off of an AVR in my case, and am quite pleased.

 

[lonewolf]

I didn't say it was bad - I was responding to the poster quoted in my message. I also run the F35s, off of an AVR in my case, and am quite pleased.

Whoops, my bad! Ultimately my question is to Alice of Old Vincennes as to why a 2.5 way is felt to be bad.

 

[dinglehoser]

Whoops, my bad! Ultimately my question is to Alice of Old Vincennes as to why a 2.5 way is felt to be bad.

I was curious about this as well, given that I've heard similar assertions elsewhere without much of an explanation as to *why*, on balance. On the contrary, I'd imagine that some designs are better suited to a two/2.5-way configuration, e.g., if the HF driver is clean to at least the "knee" of the LF driver's directivity. In that case, no reason to unnecessarily throw away LF output! (That said, I've seen and heard plenty of expensive two/2.5-way speakers that really should have been 3-way ... or no-way ...)

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

I didn't say it was bad - I was responding to the poster quoted in my message. I also run the F35s, off of an AVR in my case, and am quite pleased.

Whoops, my bad! Ultimately my question is to Alice of Old Vincennes as to why a 2.5 way is felt to be bad.

I don't think it is. Some prefer 3 way. Revel knows how to design a 2.5.

 

[Balle Clorin]

Can you please post the F35 impulse response.? I am interested to see the amount of (pre)ringing/oscillations
And ist i possible to also publish measurements of your Revel Salon 2s?

 

[thewas]

A loudspeaker without a FIR DSP can't have pre-ringing, thus every passive loudspeaker.

 

[BYRTT]

Can you please post the F35 impulse response.? I am interested to see the amount of (pre)ringing/oscillations
And ist i possible to also publish measurements of your Revel Salon 2s?

Guess this one including step should be pretty close:

Formula was take below curves from a Harman brochure and EQ its sum to ASR anechoic response as seen in lower plot:

 

[Shazb0t]

Is impulse response something the Klippel can measure? I think it might be helpful to add to the reviews if possible.

 

[QMuse]

Guess this one including step should be pretty close:
View attachment 58032

Formula was take below curves from a Harman brochure and EQ its sum to ASR anechoic response as seen in lower plot:
View attachment 58036
View attachment 58038

Judging from these graphs LF roll-off happens a bit early and there's no real bass to speak about. Is that really so with this speaker?

 

[BYRTT]

Judging from these graphs LF roll-off happens a bit early and there's no real bass to speak about. Is that really so with this speaker?

That is so Klippel robot analyzed it so far, Amir anounced he would investigate that low end down the road also he told it was visible some padding was loose inside enclosure looking into one of the ports so probably some glue has missed its purpose to bind, that said its complicated port tuning system in that two physical ports is shared among 3 times 5 inchers where two of them is filtered the same sub duty and one is filtered as mid so it can be that Klippel haircut is spot on, and then again myself is not the same bass head as most is : ) in my experience inside a real room <30sq meters its absolute possible get most speakers play great bass if a -3dB point is below say 80Hz but agree if we move this speaker outdoor into the garden then it will miss some output down there.

 

[Bear123]

Does anyone have an in room sweep for the F35 to share so we can see what kind of extension you are getting? My F36 are flat to 25 Hz or below in my room(which wouldn't be possible with the rolloff as measured by the Klippel for the F35)

 

[BYRTT]

Does anyone have an in room sweep for the F35 to share so we can see what kind of extension you are getting? My F36 are flat to 25 Hz or below in my room(which wouldn't be possible with the rolloff as measured by the Klippel for the F35)

Into post 175 @Haint kindly shared his own documented research of F35 verse M16 and S16, for me it looks his results points to lows for F35 is as resoluted by Amir's anechoic benchmark.

Link to post 175: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...l-f35-speaker-review.12053/page-9#post-351518

 

[QMuse]

Does anyone have an in room sweep for the F35 to share so we can see what kind of extension you are getting? My F36 are flat to 25 Hz or below in my room(which wouldn't be possible with the rolloff as measured by the Klippel for the F35)

Then yours go much lower then spec:

Low Frequency Extension: -10dB@33Hz -6dB@45Hz -3dB@51Hz

Edit: Indeed they do go downto 25Hz, with just a little help from JBL 550P sub.

 

[Bear123]

I decided to post this here as I feel it is relative based on similarity of design. The F35 measurements exhibit floor and ceiling cancellations in the 1500-2500 Hz range. My F36 towers(essentially the same but with 6.5" drivers instead of 5.25") have the same 2-3 dB dip in my room in the 1500-2500 Hz range. The C25 center does not. So, I did some sweeps comparing my bare hardwood floors vs several heavy blankets in front of the speaker to see if it would help this region. There was no appreciable difference.